Content Suggestion Remove A-1/O-1 from SOP

[Niox]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
>This suggestion removes both A-1 and O-1’s permissions for the SOP comms/channels, and overall classify them as separate from SOP. This would affect their access to view comms and channels in the discord, and in game.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
>nuh uh uh

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
>SOP don’t have their duties being taken by A1/O1, such as raids, interrogations on kidnapped individuals, negotiations, etc.
>SOP are more well defined with their duties, and have more opportunities to stand out and be unique.
>SOP comms are less cluttered, and are no longer MTF comms but E11 is swapped with DEA, but instead they’re more independent of each other.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
>A1/O1 are unable to monitor SOP comms, which can be done by either of their SC anyways.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
>I feel this should be accepted as DEA have had issues being respected, as negotiations is seemingly something that anyone can do, including A1/O1, which was displayed on the 06/09/24, where A1 attempted to take over DEA’s negotiations. This change would encourage less of that, and more independence from DEA overall, as it completely excludes A1/O1 from the equation, but still allowing DEA to fall back on Nu-7 if they needed help.
>Furthermore this would encourage A1/O1 to play DEA, rather than performing operations that DEA would normally perform themselves. This would draw people to the DPT, and would furthermore establish their place/dominion in the Foundation.

 

[Mozzie]

This isn’t the end of communication for raids or anything, they will still have /c and /cl3. If a raid is called out for whatever reason in SOP comms but not /c or /cl3 comms, that is a failure of SOP. I mean, E-11, CM’s, GSD all get by fine without SOP comms during C1’s, AO would be no different.

As for it being dealt with IC, well first of all I’m a CI, second of all having AO be a better SOP in every way isn’t a IC issue, it’s an issue. DEA and Nu-7 need to stand out and be more well defined, and removing AO from SOP would in help in that, as it would make sure site rely on them more, cementing there place in Foundation.

1.CL1/2/3 is for EVERY foundation member and can easy be lost in translation or ruined by minges.

2.SC can indivdually talk in every single mtf or DEA comms which is a unfair comparrison.

3. AO is not used often enough to be a replacement for SOP.

4.The identity and feel as well as the gameplay of SOP has nothing to do with which groups of people have access to a comms channel and is a crazy oversimplification of the problems of SOP in general

 

[Niox]

1.CL1/2/3 is for EVERY foundation member and can easy be lost in translation or ruined by minges.

/cl3 is not, and if it really is that bad where a raid call-out is barely said and not repeatedly sent and lost to minges, you can use /mtf as a Nu-7.

2.SC can indivdually talk in every single mtf or DEA comms which is a unfair comparrison.

Like I said, SC monitoring the comms is meant to be a last resort for if communication from their side really has gone to complete shit. Assistants can also use it if need be, and I don’t believe they have access to DEA and MTF comms? Could be wrong, just off memory.

3. AO is not used often enough to be a replacement for SOP.

To clarify for you when I say AO I’m referring to A1 and O1, not the comms line AO itself.

4.The identity and feel as well as the gameplay of SOP has nothing to do with which groups of people have access to a comms channel and is a crazy oversimplification of the problems of SOP in general

I disagree. Except it being a simplification of problems in SOP, yes it is because I’m just targeting a small one that I’ve noticed, and although it’s not a fix all cure, I feel like it’s a step in the right direction. Although it is ironic when you say it’s just a comms lines change when that itself is an oversimplification.

 

[Mozzie]

/cl3 is not, and if it really is that bad where a raid call-out is barely said and not repeatedly sent and lost to minges, you can use /mtf as a Nu-7.


Like I said, SC monitoring the comms is meant to be a last resort for if communication from their side really has gone to complete shit. Assistants can also use it if need be, and I don’t believe they have access to DEA and MTF comms? Could be wrong, just off memory.


To clarify for you when I say AO I’m referring to A1 and O1, not the comms line AO itself.


I disagree. Except it being a simplification of problems in SOP, yes it is because I’m just targeting a small one that I’ve noticed, and although it’s not a fix all cure, I feel like it’s a step in the right direction. Although it is ironic when you say it’s just a comms lines change when that itself is an oversimplification.

im not gonna say anymore but the core of the problem is the people using the comms channel and not the channel itself. Making rules instead of RP'ing or raising concerns ic is not a good fix

 

[Emilia Foddg]

Making rules instead of RP'ing or raising concerns ic is not a good fix

this isn't making a rule though, this is making an actual mechanical change

 

[Recker]

-Support

UK issue. DEA and Nu-7 on the US from what I've seen love assistance and whatnot from A1/O1. A1/O1 also do not steal things from them unless completing Site Command orders.

 

[Remmy]

I wouldn’t be up for a change like this. I think the best way of putting it is that it won’t benefit either DEA / Nu-7 or AO. Perhaps you’ve seen one or two cases of misuse by AO, but those reports have certainly never been raised with the relevant people.

I see relatively good collaboration between AO and SOP, and I don’t see the need to remove these comms from them.

 

[Archangel]

-Support

ISD Are disciplined enough to let SOP Handle their own Ops and duties as they usually do, All we do really is just Monitor comms, and use them for our own callouts aiding SOP while also communicating with them directly as any SC Interest may be interwined with SOP Matters besides like Remmy and Merrick said, if we overstep boundaries we'll get punished for it.

Additionally, i feel like as if this is a way to prevent the more Experienced and by extension more dangerous ISD People

(I Say both of those since ISD Aims to recruit more competent combatants than the average player which is Lore accurate btw)

from getting involved in CI Raids thus increasing each raid's difficulty and chances of success

 

[Asura]

The first thing we do when we recruit someone into O1 is to ensure that they know not to infringe on duties of other departments. I have not really seen any issues from the O1 side where someone took over negotiations, unless no DEA/Nu7 is responding to CI. In those cases, we try to help instead of letting CI wait for 30 minutes without a response. Also, so far, I haven't received any reports regarding this.

 

[Anthony "Pilot"]

Is extremely rare to see ISD (at least O1) take over SOP, ISD is usually there to help DEA or Nu7.
Seems like IC issue ngl

 

[Dennid]

I did have some problems although rare with ISD/AO infringing on my duties as someone who played DEA actively for a year, but I always just talked to their higherups and it was sorted quickly, the only time it didn't get sorted by a CO SC stepped in and sorted it. In most cases I appreciated A1/O1 having access and it was useful for working together or asking for assistance.

so in light of that -support for this change it is unneeded and I do hope that it does not get accepted.

If any A1/O1 do infringe on SOP duties they will be dealt with as they always have been.

 

[Stealth]

Thought I'd relay my thoughts on this as this issue stems from concerns that I've personally raised and dealt with.

Recently there have been incidents where both O-1 or A-1 have disregarded DEA's duties and taken negotiations into their own hands, this was due to them having to do it previously when DEA did not respond to CI. Recently, DEA have been a lot more productive in completing their core duties and I have ensured all negotiations are responded to.

There have been several incidents where ISD have attempted to control negotiations that DEA are completing due to the hostage being an ISD member, I have personally spoken to SC and ISD CO's to ensure this no longer continues as it completely disregards are department.

ISD Are disciplined enough to let SOP Handle their own Ops and duties as they usually do, All we do really is just Monitor comms, and use them for our own callouts aiding SOP while also communicating with them directly as any SC Interest may be interwined with SOP Matters besides like Remmy and Merrick said, if we overstep boundaries we'll get punished for it.

Is extremely rare to see ISD (at least O1) take over SOP, ISD is usually there to help DEA or Nu7.
Seems like IC issue ngl

Comments like this do seem ignorant of the fact that these issues have been raised and "dealt with" by SC and ISD CO's though as it's clear that some are not aware of the initial issue. To sum it up, the main issue has been resolved and this seems to be an attempt to fix that issue however is definitely not the right approach to the situation.

 

[Barney on Meth]

-Support
UK issue if anything

 

[Luft]

If A-1 and O-1 prioritize themselves over SOP, e.g NU-7, IA, DEA etc then we have a bigger issue than this suggestion.
But generally, +support. This was added with the intention of A-1 and O-1 being trusted to have the brains to not interfere with shit they have nothing to do with. They shouldn't be planting themselves in majority of situations where it isn't required.

 

[Niox]

-Support

UK issue. DEA and Nu-7 on the US from what I've seen love assistance and whatnot from A1/O1. A1/O1 also do not steal things from them unless completing Site Command orders.

-Support
UK issue if anything

Fair. Never bothered to check US because I am a lazy ass, so apologies for the crossfire.

I see relatively good collaboration between AO and SOP, and I don’t see the need to remove these comms from them.

Fair point. If you’ve seen good collaboration and this gets removed as a consequence, that is a negative. Personally I haven’t seen it, but that’s only from my POV as a past A-1, and I did leave a few weeks ago.

I have not really seen any issues from the O1 side where someone took over negotiations, unless no DEA/Nu7 is responding to CI. In those cases, we try to help instead of letting CI wait for 30 minutes without a response. Also, so far, I haven't received any reports regarding this.

Is extremely rare to see ISD (at least O1) take over SOP, ISD is usually there to help DEA or Nu7.
Seems like IC issue ngl

“Watched O-1 today order Nu-7 around like they were running the hostage negotiations. Just doesn’t seem something they should be taking charge on to me.”
This was said by the Nu-7 LTCOM in the nu7-dea discord channel. As I was not involved i am unsure if he has raised the incident to you’s at all, but I am glad to see that you’re attempting to lead O1 down the correct path with this.

If any A1/O1 do infringe on SOP duties they will be dealt with as they always have been.

I always believe it’s better to remove the root cause to prevent it from happening with minimal drawbacks, but this is a valid point.

Stealth said what I was thinking quite clearly, and although not a complete solution in my opinion, I do think that it would benefit DEA/Nu-7 more than the negatives given out.

 

[Pupper]

+support
only remove o-1 though cause they like to barge into sop duties A LOT but a-1 is chill and doesnt do that
the amount of times I've said something in sop comms just for an o-1 to respond with something stupid...

 

[Asura]

“Watched O-1 today order Nu-7 around like they were running the hostage negotiations. Just doesn’t seem something they should be taking charge on to me.”
This was said by the Nu-7 LTCOM in the nu7-dea discord channel. As I was not involved i am unsure if he has raised the incident to you’s at all, but I am glad to see that you’re attempting to lead O1 down the correct path with this.

I’ve never heard of this until now, but I will double-check with him and see if there is a report. I’ll leave it at that, and thank you for bringing it up.

 

[Wonka]

-support.

 

[Skinner]

Idiot suggestion, who wants to remove contact links between the strongest forces of Foundation? This would just make GoI raid planning and other types of assessments between SOP and ISD harder

 

[Niox]

Idiot suggestion, who wants to remove contact links between the strongest forces of Foundation? This would just make GoI raid planning and other types of assessments between SOP and ISD harder

Or you could talk in person.
Or you could have someone hand you the comms IC so you can hop into the TS
Or you can…. Talk on normal comms for basic coordination (/c3, /mtf)

 

['Detainee']

-support
Literally no reason why it should be removed