Denied Remove Staff Ruling 4.05 or Change it.

[ToasterStrudels]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:

Removes Staff Ruling 4.05 or change it to where D-Class are allowed to kill GOI's only on surface to prevent people from job abusing to counter C.I in D-Block.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:[/B]

Not that I know of

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):[/B]

It'll allow D-Class to do more on surface instead of "Run around until you get captured by C.I/GOC or die to Foundation"

Lore Wise it makes sense considering D-Class are Death Row inmates and are people who will literally do anything they want including mass murdering people. It would also allow for some RP to be had if a D-Class shoots up Pinewood and start RP with the Mayor/Rangers.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:[/B]

It'll give D-Class more ways to just kill people.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:

It should be suggested because it's a dumb rule that limits what Death Row inmates can do. Death Row inmates are awful people and realistically would murder anyone who gets in their way or just anyone for the fun of it. I don't think it'll be too difficult either to see if people are spawn camping civilians if it gets reported.

 

[Joris Kilotoviz/London]

Can you clarify what you mean about job abusing to counter Ci in dblock?

 

[Bill Nye The Guy]

+support they are awful people and considering foundation can disguise as any other faction they should be allowed to shoot whoever they want

 

[ToasterStrudels]

Can you clarify what you mean about job abusing to counter Ci in dblock?

I was told before this rule was a thing people would swap to D-Class when C.I infil'd into D-Block so they could kill C.I

 

[Emilia Foddg]

i've thought about this before - this one was always tricky for me. on one hand, i get that for gameplay and balance reasons you don't want a massive bunch of d-class just committing MRDM simulator on surface. on the other hand, how often do d-class get to surface? i've seen d-class get to surface a grand total of once. additionally... again, these are hardened criminals, death row inmates. just being incarcerated for potentially being an unhinged serial killer imo is valid rp reason enough to kill... pretty much everyone. of course it tracks.

yeah, i just don't see reasonable justification for this ruling. i don't understand why we have it, other than for

people would swap to D-Class when C.I infil'd into D-Block so they could kill C.I

which pretty much... yeah, that's just job abuse and RDM.

+Support

 

[ToasterStrudels]

i've thought about this before - this one was always tricky for me. on one hand, i get that for gameplay and balance reasons you don't want a massive bunch of d-class just committing MRDM simulator on surface. on the other hand, how often do d-class get to surface? i've seen d-class get to surface a grand total of once. additionally... again, these are hardened criminals, death row inmates. just being incarcerated for potentially being an unhinged serial killer imo is valid rp reason enough to kill... pretty much everyone. of course it tracks.

yeah, i just don't see reasonable justification for this ruling. i don't understand why we have it, other than for

which pretty much... yeah, that's just job abuse and RDM.

+Support

As long as they don't intentionally spawn camp anyone I think it should be fine. I can imagine how much RP they Mayor and Ranger would have with Foundation if someone from their base came and shot up their town.

 

[Ace 63]

+/- Support
I like the idea but we have to remember that d class is the job everyone starts with meaning people who just join the server can do stuff as big as this? I think it would do some good but heavy moderation would be needed I think

 

[grunger]

The only issue I see is that this could cause a lot of disruption to the surface RP cycle. What if a D-Class isn't intent on killing civilians, but say, CI or GOC only? Why should a non-SCP class be able to kill indiscriminately, if not barred by virtue of being a death row inmate, others' gameplay?

Of course it would make sense that death row inmates would kill anybody in their way, but it would also make sense if bullets killed in one shot and the Foundation had hostile-targetting turrets around every corner. Balance over logic.

EDIT: It's up in the air AFAIK. D-Class need more to do, this could help, but it's not a guarantee.

 

[ToasterStrudels]

+/- Support
I like the idea but we have to remember that d class is the job everyone starts with meaning people who just join the server can do stuff as big as this? I think it would do some good but heavy moderation would be needed I think

I agree that it would need moderation but I think others have given some good points that D-Class don't typically escape to surface alone. Whenever they do manage to escape to surface they are with C.I so this would really only apply to the lucky few who escape alone or with other D-Class.

The only issue I see is that this could cause a lot of disruption to the surface RP cycle. What if a D-Class isn't intent on killing civilians, but say, CI or GOC only? Why should a non-SCP class be able to kill indiscriminately, if not barred by virtue of being a death row inmate, others' gameplay?

Of course it would make sense that death row inmates would kill anybody in their way, but it would also make sense if bullets killed in one shot and the Foundation had hostile-targetting turrets around every corner. Balance over logic.

EDIT: It's up in the air AFAIK. D-Class need more to do, this could help, but it's not a guarantee.

I can agree to some extent but as others have said you don't really see many D-Class reach surface and when they do it's typically because of C.I, maybe implement a rule to where you can't attack the faction that helped you escape? I completely agree with balance over logic but for this I feel like making it a bit more logical would increase RP more on surface especially for Pinewood Citizens. It would give Foundation more reasons to prevent people from escaping and hunting down those who do escape. As long as they can implement rules to prevent others gameplay from being completely ruined constantly I think allowing D-Class to murder anyone would be a good rule change.

 

[Joris Kilotoviz/London]

Honestly I have to say -Support

While it could make sense in-Rp, I believe that it'd be damaging to the already lax surface Rp

 

[ToasterStrudels]

Honestly I have to say -Support

While it could make sense in-Rp, I believe that it'd be damaging to the already lax surface Rp

A counter point: The other day a C.I gave me and two other D-Class a car with two mounted turrets and if killing civilians was allowed we would have shot up the entirety of surface. You might see it as just random killing with no RP but for those who survive they can start some pretty big riots and Foundation will be able to come up with some wacky story about who they were. I seriously think it would make surface so much more enjoyable with the RIGHT D-Class. Most are just mindless people wanting to kill but I genuinely love creating wacky situations like this.

 

[Joris Kilotoviz/London]

A counter point: The other day a C.I gave me and two other D-Class a car with two mounted turrets and if killing civilians was allowed we would have shot up the entirety of surface. You might see it as just random killing with no RP but for those who survive they can start some pretty big riots and Foundation will be able to come up with some wacky story about who they were. I seriously think it would make surface so much more enjoyable with the RIGHT D-Class. Most are just mindless people wanting to kill but I genuinely love creating wacky situations like this.

I still have to disagree. The majority of Civies would be unable to fight back and it would just be brutally unfun for them
Say, Foundation is dealing with a large breach and no UNGOC are on. The Dclass would just be able to go on a murder spree.

And rethinking it, it would not really make sense for Dclass to go "Oh hummdity tum, I got free so now im just going to walk around this random ass town and kill people : ) "

 

[Glazzing]

-support they have no reason to shoot up pinewood or a GoI realistically unless they are hostile

also how does that prevent job abuse lmao

 

[ToasterStrudels]

-support they have no reason to shoot up pinewood or a GoI realistically unless they are hostile

also how does that prevent job abuse lmao

Unless I worded it poorly I never said this would prevent job abuse. I said there should be a rule added to where D-Class can't kill C.I inside D-Block because before this rule existed Foundation Mains would flag onto D-Class to kill C.I hiding inside bathrooms in D-Block. That is job abuse. Their reasoning is they are literally serial killers.

I still have to disagree. The majority of Civies would be unable to fight back and it would just be brutally unfun for them
Say, Foundation is dealing with a large breach and no UNGOC are on. The Dclass would just be able to go on a murder spree.

And rethinking it, it would not really make sense for Dclass to go "Oh hummdity tum, I got free so now im just going to walk around this random ass town and kill people : ) "

I can understand that them not being able to fight back is a concern but if any other GOI found out another gave D-Class a vehicle with turrets they would 100% declare war on them to defend Pinewood and I also have a feeling Pinewood citizens would take up arms to defend themselves. No Pinewood Mayor would allow their Citizens to get shot at and not defend themselves. I can understand the massive breach though which is why we should put some rules behind this to prevent things like that happening. Maybe add a rule where we need at least a few GOC on to attack Pinewood?

 

[Glazzing]

Unless I worded it poorly I never said this would prevent job abuse. I said there should be a rule added to where D-Class can't kill C.I inside D-Block because before this rule existed Foundation Mains would flag onto D-Class to kill C.I hiding inside bathrooms in D-Block. That is job abuse. Their reasoning is they are literally serial killers.



I can understand that them not being able to fight back is a concern but if any other GOI found out another gave D-Class a vehicle with turrets they would 100% declare war on them to defend Pinewood and I also have a feeling Pinewood citizens would take up arms to defend themselves. No Pinewood Mayor would allow their Citizens to get shot at and not defend themselves. I can understand the massive breach though which is why we should put some rules behind this to prevent things like that happening. Maybe add a rule where we need at least a few GOC on to attack Pinewood?

for that first part just get them D-Class warned for killing CI as shrimple as that, adding a rule that lets d class kill GoI's would not help that...

 

[Niox]

why

 

[ToasterStrudels]

for that first part just get them D-Class warned for killing CI as shrimple as that, adding a rule that lets d class kill GoI's would not help that...

You didn't read the suggestion then.

why

It's fun and gives D-Class even more to do. I was unaware of this rules existence until today and I previously would help Foundation kill C.I if I had a DEA or Nu7 disguise. I can't do that anymore because I don't want to get in trouble.

 

[Joris Kilotoviz/London]

Unless I worded it poorly I never said this would prevent job abuse. I said there should be a rule added to where D-Class can't kill C.I inside D-Block because before this rule existed Foundation Mains would flag onto D-Class to kill C.I hiding inside bathrooms in D-Block. That is job abuse. Their reasoning is they are literally serial killers.



I can understand that them not being able to fight back is a concern but if any other GOI found out another gave D-Class a vehicle with turrets they would 100% declare war on them to defend Pinewood and I also have a feeling Pinewood citizens would take up arms to defend themselves. No Pinewood Mayor would allow their Citizens to get shot at and not defend themselves. I can understand the massive breach though which is why we should put some rules behind this to prevent things like that happening. Maybe add a rule where we need at least a few GOC on to attack Pinewood?

That rule would be hard to support as the Dclass could easily say "But there were enough GOIs on when I started killing" Overall this would just worsen Surface RP (Even more than it already is) Because imma be honest, getting repeatedly killed Rp is not fukin fun at all

 

[Aura]

-Massive Support


D-class MRDM

 

[ToasterStrudels]

-Massive Support


D-class MRDM

D-Class already MRDM.