Removing the nobility system and forced RP on surface

[[PAM-OFC] Isle Khat]

Before I get into this in depth, I want to let the reader know that before the change on surface with the stickied docs, there was an active surface, active civilians, where'd they go? Why is it only PAM and very few actual civis now? Because the staff seen UNGOC bitch to them about civilians, so they made the Mayor and Ranger completely have to listen and follow the UNGOC no matter what they do, especially if the UNGOC kills Rangers or Civilians, or abducting the Mayor without valid RP reason, that document makes the UNGOC able to do whatever they want, whenever they want on surface, giving them the ability to break server rules because they are protected by one.
Thank you for your time, I hope you understood what I had typed out above.
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This Suggestion (if accepted) wishes to remove the UNGOC's out of character rule to the Mayor and Ranger job, I am not only speaking for myself in this matter, there are many others that want the same. This suggestion (if accepted) will change surface RP for the better and make it so many people are happy rather than the select few (UN), it also will remove the documents that are OOC+IC in the spawnpoints of the Ranger and Mayor job.

Yeah there is a specific suggestion that is alike to this one, its another one I had created, it's called "Removing GOC stuff from Ranger & Mayor", this is because I want to write something in response to "World"s reason of denying my first suggestion, this suggestion is different because it will give more insight and the same emphasis the older one had, and to be as informative as possible. The suggestion is labeled as "Resolved"

The main positive of this suggestion is to let civilian/surface RP be like it used to, not talking about minging because I know people are going to pull that, but rather make surface RP less admin ties with what civilians and factions do in game and in character, and civilian/surface RP used to be awesome because the amount of things that held the civilians down was the roleplay aspect and not the ruleplay aspect, now its exactly like foundation, more ruleplay and people being banned because another person is mad for getting bodied when he tried to pick a fight with 6 rangers, a Mayor, and countless civilians...
The other positives are listed below:​

1. More roleplay instead of ruleplay​
2. Less UNGOC making senseless wars against a Canadian town (less RDM from UNGOC)​
3. Agreed upon by a few communities of people​
4. More unique roleplay from civilians instead of the Mayor and Ranger not being able to do anything whatsoever​

The last one is a major thing, I asked an admin in a sit (what am I to do?) and he told me (Just listen to GOC) but the UNGOC hate my guts only because I am PAM, out of character and in character, if you don't believe it, watch this video of them starting an arguement on PAM in mess hall for the sole reason of someone talking about whens a surface update coming out. The video hyperlink is here.

And this was started because the UNGOC people got pressed OOC because of what happened IC, they called sits but I assure you nothing happened to any civs or foundation, the civs didn't participate in the raid because they were too busy being spawncamped by CI snipers because the CI leader issued an order to KOS anyone with a gun out, makes you see what the bullshit is on surface, if there hadn't been any bullshit then this wouldn't of happened.

The possible negatives of this suggestion is listed below:​

1. This would hurt the UNGOC's feelings since they only RP when its in their favor and will never take the L​
2. This would stop the nobility system on surface while it still can​
3. This would make the factions on surface liable for any rule breaks (sorta, 9/10 the admins going to still take their side)​

This suggestion should be accepted because you have already seen it work out, this will really add more civilian RP and less RDM against civilians thats justified through that one document, in the words of a guy that hates PAM that denied the last one named "World",
"Suggestion denied: This change was originally made in light of our effort to increase the possibilities of SurfaceRP on the server. While it doesn't align with your style of roleplay this is still how we envision and would like mayor/rangers to operate."
There is no way for the Mayor or Rangers to operate if the UNGOC hate them both IC and OOC for the reason being that they get their asses kicked whenever they try to kill civilians without reason, it is impossible for me to play Mayor with the UNGOC hating me, but I will still do it until I either get banned or go something else.​

 

[Betriv]

-support
didn't follow the format instant denial lol

 

[Weebe San]

+Support
The current system just makes the mayor and rangers GOC lite which crushes any roleplay. Also GOC love to mass rdm by calling airstrikes on the town.

 

[Tyrone]

+Support

I dont see why the UN should have power over a small town mayor and their PD

 

[Tigole]

-/+ support
I don't think a small army (rangers) should feel like they can strongarm themselves against GOI's that clearly have powerful assets to their disposal and should be treated as major Fear Roleplay to civi, rangers and the mayor if threatened. Doesn't make sense they think they can combat such force.

However, I do feel as civis (rangers and the mayor) should NOT be under any control from GOC.

 

[Simon "Kitton" A.]

-/+ support
While I do agree rangers and mayors should be a separate thing from UN and that they should be able to control themselves. This vision is way too good for what it is. If you wanted surface RP to be good you would have to make actual whitelists/regiments of their own and god knows that 90% of the community do not care for surface RP. The activity would not be there. At the same time you need to understand that UN, Foundation and CI still would need to be stronger than this "GOI" which could get some balancing issues going.

 

[Dusk]

-/+Support
They're technically supposed to do whatever they want, whenever they want to. Lore accurate UNGOC are essentially the good side of government protecting civilian life from world ending information and entities. However, with this point the UNGOC has to have content supporting this for it to actually work like that, as well as Civilians themselves.

Considering civilian life has no foundation and they are essentially background jobs, they can't and wont coincide with the UNGOC surface side. No matter the rule implementations, jobs and reworks neither will work on the surface. There's simply not enough to support three entire factions on the surface, regardless of the quality of people on those jobs.

 

[Glazzing]

+support

bring back civilian wars

 

[The Guardian]

One of the more soy filled suggestions I'm ngl

 

["Fang"]

-Support
This would just cause more confilct between civs and GOC/CI/F

 

[Author]

-Support
this would just lead to more issues with Majors, Rangers, Civilians and a certain group on surface.

 

[Creative]

Because the staff seen UNGOC bitch to them about civilians, so they made the Mayor and Ranger completely have to listen and follow the UNGOC no matter what they do

You claim that UNGOC bitched to staff, causing them to make mayor and rangers obey UNGOC. While I cant say what happened to cause the changes to rangers and mayor to be made since I was only an LT, I can assure you that neither UNGOC group, both on US or UK, asked or knew about the changes to mayor and rangers being added. You claim that this was directly made because UNGOC asked staff to do it when that isn't the case at all. Please fact check yourself before making claims such as these.

especially if the UNGOC kills Rangers or Civilians, or abducting the Mayor without valid RP reason

There will never be a situation where the UNGOC kidnaps a mayor or ranger for no "valid" RP reason. If they are kidnapped then there is always a reason behind it, such as them knowing something they shouldn't. Even though they work for UNGOC that does not give them the pass to know everything about everything. As for if they are killing Rangers or Civilians for no reason, make a sit, or bring it up to a GOC Officer with evidence and it'll be addressed.

that document makes the UNGOC able to do whatever they want, whenever they want on surface, giving them the ability to break server rules because they are protected by one.

it also will remove the documents that are OOC+IC in the spawnpoints of the Ranger and Mayor job.

That document was created to assist the mayor and rangers in creating RP with the context that they work for UNGOC. I would know because I'm the one who wrote it. There is absolutely nothing about that document that is OOC, it is purely IC. If there were OOC aspects of it then I would have named the surface SCPs detailed it as "SCP-8854" and "SCP-323". Instead the document is extremely vague about them and gives you the bare minimum you need to know as a mayor and ranger to survive against them, and how to protect your civilians. There is absolutely nothing about these documents that "allow us to break server rules." If you read the document yourself, you would know what the document talks about.

The main positive of this suggestion is to let civilian/surface RP be like it used to, not talking about minging because I know people are going to pull that, but rather make surface RP less admin ties with what civilians and factions do in game and in character, and civilian/surface RP used to be awesome because the amount of things that held the civilians down was the roleplay aspect and not the ruleplay aspect, now its exactly like foundation, more ruleplay and people being banned because another person is mad for getting bodied when he tried to pick a fight with 6 rangers, a Mayor, and countless civilians...
The other positives are listed below:​

1. More roleplay instead of ruleplay​
2. Less UNGOC making senseless wars against a Canadian town (less RDM from UNGOC)​
3. Agreed upon by a few communities of people​
4. More unique roleplay from civilians instead of the Mayor and Ranger not being able to do anything whatsoever​

Where do I even start with this section? There is a ton of RP you can do on surface that is "unique." The other day there was a mayor who was harvesting organs from civilians and trying to sell them to CI and Foundation, and when they didn't answer they came to us and we investigated where he was getting the organs from. We absolutely loved the RP and it was fun and enjoyable (Even if he was warned for FailRP for it? I don't really get that a mayor can absolutely rp as being corrupt and doing stuff like that). The "senseless wars" you call 90% of the time are caused by rangers even with this rule implemented. Just because GOC kidnap the mayor or a ranger, the mayor or rangers immediately declare a war with little to no RP behind it at all. I have not seen a mayor or ranger once ask why we were dragging one of them in a private capacity, rather immediately yell in open comms "THE UN ARE KILLING CIVILIANS" or "THE UN KIDNAPPED THE MAYOR THIS MEANS WAR". The best part is that they don't even try to listen to the explanations we try to provide, just immediately start a war. That isn't RP, that is a shit show that starts unnecessary gunplay, and as a result ruleplay.

The possible negatives of this suggestion is listed below:​

1. This would hurt the UNGOC's feelings since they only RP when its in their favor and will never take the L​
2. This would stop the nobility system on surface while it still can​
3. This would make the factions on surface liable for any rule breaks (sorta, 9/10 the admins going to still take their side)​

This is the craziest thing ive ever seen anyone say in a suggestion. Suggestions should be respectful, and not attack groups of people. As I said before GOC never asked for the changes to mayor and rangers be implemented, some even wanted it reverted themselves. I created documents to allow the mayor more roleplay because whats said in the job description is extremely vague and doesnt give you much room to actually rp the connection between the mayor and GOC, it actually creates more RP between us. Every faction on surface is liable for any rule breaks that occur, even if you dont personally see it yourself, please stop claiming that there is bias if you dont have any proof.

This suggestion should be accepted because you have already seen it work out, this will really add more civilian RP and less RDM against civilians thats justified through that one document, in the words of a guy that hates PAM that denied the last one named "World",
"Suggestion denied: This change was originally made in light of our effort to increase the possibilities of SurfaceRP on the server. While it doesn't align with your style of roleplay this is still how we envision and would like mayor/rangers to operate."
There is no way for the Mayor or Rangers to operate if the UNGOC hate them both IC and OOC for the reason being that they get their asses kicked whenever they try to kill civilians without reason, it is impossible for me to play Mayor with the UNGOC hating me, but I will still do it until I either get banned or go something else.

The rule was added, to my knowledge, to stop the mayor/rangers from constantly info breaching, raiding foundation 24/7, acting like armed parawatch, and stop wars from being made 24/7 between civilians and other people. The mayor and rangers have always been peacekeepers, and peacekeepers would not cause mass panic because of what a parawatch dug up in foundation, and then continue to print 20 copies of the document and protect that parawatch and all the copies of the documents to keep an info breach going for longer than it should, bypassing NLR until staff intervened. That is what this rule should prevent, yet it still happens occasionally because there are far too many people part of the failrp to punish. War is not RP, especially a small local ranger station going up against 3 highly armed groups of people. What World has said was correct, the rule simply doesn't align in your style of roleplay. I can assure you that if you attempt to create RP that is actually unique, and leads somewhere that isn't a war, then the UNGOC will be interested in participating in it. If you believe that RP you created is being ignored by GOC, and it aligns with what I said in it not starting a war, then feel free to dm me and ill bring it up to the individuals involved.

 

[grunger]

Wouldn't normally support such a change but I feel like civilian RP has been stale ever since. Give them their freedom back