Rule Suggestion Rule Addition- No Major Gameplay Changes without SL+ Approval

[Vizoplez]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Rule Suggestion, specifically for the addition of SL Authorisation for major gameplay changes by faction/departmental leads.
Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Y/N. Many suggestions about individual rulings and specific individuals have been made.
Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+Better Regulation of potentially disruptive changes, smoother gameplay-RP transition
+Accountability for one's mistakes.
Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
-SL being no fun.
-SSL being no fun.
-NL being no fun.

As a serious negative, this can be a genuine problem where staff over-reach can quickly become a problem, and should be heavily watched for misuse.
Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Read the thread, make your own decision. This got heated.


UNFORMATTED -

This might be confusing at first; but hear me out. As of late, a large majority of CL4/CL5 positions on SCPRP UK have authorised major policy changes that have massively decreased the viability of playing specific sample-related SCPs; and pretty much entirely killed off D-class gameplay - though that's also in part due to an SL change.

e.g; Nowadays? We can't sample SCPs without a document (ANY SCP, INCLUDING CL1s) which- while it may sound good that we're increasing the 'roleplay level' of the server - it has done far more damage to the overall gameplay loop than it has benefitted, in my opinion.

Yes, CL5/4 exist as Leadership positions, yes, they should have some power over their respective faction;

But it's a problem where now outside of events, specific SCPs like 860-2, and SCP-939 are pretty much entirely untested. Like, I'm gonna be for real

Over the course of 4 days, I played SCP-939 for a total of 39 hours.
I was sampled once.
I was fed d-class twice.

This averages a test rate of less than one per day. What the fuck?

How are SCP players supposed to enjoy the game other than breaching now? There's no reason to play SCPs other than safe-classes or 912/457 as they can either very easily grind EXP or are close enough to LCZ/other areas to go on mass killsprees before being gunned down violently.

So; here's the suggestion for a rule

1. Members of a Faction's Command, while they have a large portion of authority, may not make unilaterally gameplay-altering decisions that would majorly affect multiple aspects of the gameplay loop, without first contacting a member of Server Leadership and discussing an implementation plan, the benefits, and the negatives.

As for why it is needed- on UK, guess what.

The people who implemented this weren't even CL5.

They were the CL4 ISD Director and RSD Directors.

It's pretty strange to me how this was allowed through in the first place but w/e

 

[Welper]

How is one meant to place a comment with any logic in it here, like, how am I meant to counter this when the idea is so funny it HAS A MEME

 

[Cade Valentine]

Okay as funny as this entire suggestion is, on a real note right:

"Sampling is restricted so no-one ever tests on me anymore" Lemme say this as loud as possible for you:

GOOD.

I have never made it a secret that I utterly DETEST sampling in its entirety as it's the bottom of the barrel in terms of quality roleplay and RSD can and have done better, and they have my full backing in doing so. The gameplay changes we make are because we as CL4/CL5 act as the bridge between the playerbase and staff. Complaints raise up, we discuss them, propose solutions and if they could work, they are implemented.

God forbid we actually use the time we have on the server to try and IMPROVE the quality of it instead of allowing slop like you're suggesting to continue. That'd be uncalled for!

 

[YandereMuffin]

Over the course of 4 days, I played SCP-939 for a total of 39 hours.
I was sampled once.
I was fed d-class twice.

Can you explain why / how you feel that the above is linked to any action done by an in-character RP leadership position?

I obviously feel different, but standing still on a flare as 939 (or even running around with no interaction bar a person trying to lure you in with flares) isn't interesting and fun RP at all.

 

[Vizoplez]

Can you explain why / how you feel that the above is linked to any action done by an in-character RP leadership position?

I obviously feel different, but standing still on a flare as 939 (or even running around with no interaction bar a person trying to lure you in with flares) isn't interesting and fun RP at all.

Directly.

UK ISD were told to directly detain and punish, atop of it being a directive from the RSD director.

Yes, it's a memeworthy post.

That doesn't mean it's unwarranted. We've had this repeated trend of specific people getting into specific positions of power and deciding to flip the gameplay loop for shits and giggles.

God bless you.

Okay as funny as this entire suggestion is, on a real note right:

"Sampling is restricted so no-one ever tests on me anymore" Lemme say this as loud as possible for you:

GOOD.

I have never made it a secret that I utterly DETEST sampling in its entirety as it's the bottom of the barrel in terms of quality roleplay and RSD can and have done better, and they have my full backing in doing so. The gameplay changes we make are because we as CL4/CL5 act as the bridge between the playerbase and staff. Complaints raise up, we discuss them, propose solutions and if they could work, they are implemented.

God forbid we actually use the time we have on the server to try and IMPROVE the quality of it instead of allowing slop like you're suggesting to continue. That'd be uncalled for!

We aren't Site 9.

The entire point of S-9 was to do this. Trying to implement Site-9 esque policies onto UK is only going to lead to disaster. I hate to tell you this, but unironically it's gotten to a point where getting into SCPRP on UK is harder than it is on US by miles.

There's no reason to not simply play your first 50 hours on US where you can actually have fun & grind levels -> swap to UK... At which point users ask themselves "Why do I even want to swap to UK?" and then just stay on US.

SCPRP UK is NOT a captive market.

Despite it being slop and MYSELF also detesting it, the problem is that there has been, also, no internal push for crosstesting or other interesting experiments by the Cl4/Cl5 that approved of this. Meaning all it has been is a detriment.

how about you get off your asses instead of flaming on the forums.

 

[Vizoplez]

This isn't to say I approve of making things sloppified, and I am not saying to revert things - thats what I don't think people have realised.
This rule suggestion would only take effect after it is implemented - the entire point being to give staff more time to intervene and go "wait what the fuck?" and actually review it.

So we don't have things like 10/12 , the great A/O wars that started from a miscomm, etc, where specific members of SC/SCL4 were directly responsible for things that either directly tanked the RP level, or lead to staff having to get involved anyway.

Like with Foxatron. And the entire shitflinging that was.

 

[Vizoplez]

View attachment 25617

 

[Auburn]

You really find a way to complain about everything, huh…

 

[Niox]

more test options that give RP and arent just sampling slop mmmmmm yes yes please mr john content team

 

[Vizoplez]

You really find a way to complain about everything, huh…

It's a speciality of mine.

more test options that give RP and arent just sampling slop mmmmmm yes yes please mr john content team

>removes #1 driver to interact with some SCPs
>doesn't add anything in return
>wonders why players complain

Saar. Content teaaaaaaam!! Back to the CONTENT MINES!

 

[Pyrite]

We aren't Site 9.

The entire point of S-9 was to do this. Trying to implement Site-9 esque policies onto UK is only going to lead to disaster. I hate to tell you this, but unironically it's gotten to a point where getting into SCPRP on UK is harder than it is on US by miles.

There's no reason to not simply play your first 50 hours on US where you can actually have fun & grind levels -> swap to UK... At which point users ask themselves "Why do I even want to swap to UK?" and then just stay on US.

SCPRP UK is NOT a captive market.

Despite it being slop and MYSELF also detesting it, the problem is that there has been, also, no internal push for crosstesting or other interesting experiments by the Cl4/Cl5 that approved of this. Meaning all it has been is a detriment.

how about you get off your asses instead of flaming on the forums.

>Be me on Site-65, a roleplay server
>Implement a change to better the roleplay
>Have someone complain that roleplay is for another server that isn't even out yet

Funnily enough, people RP on Site-65. Just cause a change is made to improve RP, doesn't make it something for Site-9.
If you don't like UK then go to US. No need to complain about UK when you have quite easily told yourself the solution in your message. We aren't trying to be a "captive market" cause we ain't selling anything. You make your own roleplay, and if you can't manage that, that's fine, but no point blaming people higher than yourselves and saying SL should stop them doing their job. If SL had an issue with the change they would have said something about it.
Also, you flame Cade for commenting on your app when its literally about her. How about you listen to them instead of complaining about the feedback you get?

 

[SynergyJohn]

It is to my knowledge through observation (and direct assistance both in my time as SA and FCOM) that UK's RSD CL4 are always intent on helping with getting tests approved. Things are already quite simple and the Executives are almost always present to help with that.

For a sampling, you only need a few things, and they are encouraged when you are onboarded and if you ask for assistance.
- Safety precautions
- Reason for sampling
- Method

That's pretty much it. It's all fluff from there, and many have taken the time to make them look fancy. There is a reason we've had up and coming researchers get better and better.

If you have an idea for SCP tests that go beyond just sampling, I urge you to write it out using the scientific method, you also don't need to make a completely unique test. Things may have been done months ago, but who cares? If it's relevant you can test it yourself, that's the beauty of reproduction of test documentation.

 

[Vizoplez]

>Be me on Site-65, a roleplay server
>Implement a change to better the roleplay
>Have someone complain that roleplay is for another server that isn't even out yet

Funnily enough, people RP on Site-65. Just cause a change is made to improve RP, doesn't make it something for Site-9.
If you don't like UK then go to US. No need to complain about UK when you have quite easily told yourself the solution in your message. We aren't trying to be a "captive market" cause we ain't selling anything. You make your own roleplay, and if you can't manage that, that's fine, but no point blaming people higher than yourselves and saying SL should stop them doing their job. If SL had an issue with the change they would have said something about it.
Also, you flame Cade for commenting on your app when its literally about her. How about you listen to them instead of complaining about the feedback you get?

>my app
what

>flame Cade
-Still ignoring the overall points

>"We aren't selling anything"
Yes, you are. Civil Networks is a business.

>"You make your own roleplay"
Yes, we do. The problem is the attempt to gatekeep that behind approvals that require specific members of a department to be on, as far as I am aware, because the documentation specifically stated CL4 research, meaning Site Admin could not approve by proxy.

>"IF SL have an issue about the change they'd have said something"
Ignoring the point again.

The point is not this specific change. This change was used as an example.

The problem is that this is a long-term trend where things can suddenly and very rapidly change with minimal communication to yknow.

Everyone that isn't in those immediate circles.


also as an edit-

What do you mean by "saying SL should stop them from doing their jobs". That's not what I said at all. Infact, that's quite the opposite. I said that they should have to approach members of SL with massive game altering decisions so it can be properly reviewed.

This isn't 'stopping' anything. This is literally just requesting that some level of verification and planning be done before these changes, so actual updates and sweeping changes can be quickly made to yknow. Go along with things?

I still don't get why you're hyper-focused on defending the research changes, that's not the reason of the suggestion.

It's just a convenient example.

 

[Vizoplez]

It is to my knowledge through observation (and direct assistance both in my time as SA and FCOM) that UK's RSD CL4 are always intent on helping with getting tests approved. Things are already quite simple and the Executives are almost always present to help with that.

For a sampling, you only need a few things, and they are encouraged when you are onboarded and if you ask for assistance.
- Safety precautions
- Reason for sampling
- Method

That's pretty much it. It's all fluff from there, and many have taken the time to make them look fancy. There is a reason we've had up and coming researchers get better and better.

If you have an idea for SCP tests that go beyond just sampling, I urge you to write it out using the scientific method, you also don't need to make a completely unique test. Things may have been done months ago, but who cares? If it's relevant you can test it yourself, that's the beauty of reproduction of test documentation.

Sadly, while this is true and I don't hold anything specifically against UK Research, I still think the policy was a mistake and should have gone through further revisions so we don't have a crippling lack of ways for people to actually perform these tests when said users aren't on. The closest example I can reasonably make is;

They're there. They care, but they can't be everywhere at once. It ends up being a scheduling issue most days where maybe there might be a CL4 research on to approve tests and assist with things, but w/e.

I think, again, people are ignoring the overall point of the post. It was not to attack Cade/etc specifically, but to more directly point out that maybe this might be a problem that one person can change such huge swathes without proper preparations being put into place. It'd be nice if we had a way to schedule test reviews and documentations when said users were online, but that requires content team to actually make content.

 

[FinnTheBee]

"how about you get off your asses instead of flaming on the forums."

Me when I don't understand how much CL5 holders, especially Cade have done for Site-65 in the past few months by completely reworking things for better, healthier and ENJOYABLE RP.




Talking from the UK side of things. People DO actually RP on Site-65 and it's improved a hell of a lot over the years thanks to SR CL4 and CL5 holders. I wont parrot what the others have said above me but they've given you ways to improve your own RP or even the whole of RSD. If you don't enjoy those options then idk what else to say.

 

[Vizoplez]

View attachment 25620

Me when I don't understand how much CL5 holders, especially Cade have done for Site-65 in the past few months by completely reworking things for better, healthier and ENJOYABLE RP.




Talking from the UK side of things. People DO actually RP on Site-65 and it's improved a hell of a lot over the years thanks to SR CL4 and CL5 holders. I wont parrot what the others have said above me but they've given you ways to improve your own RP or even the whole of RSD. If you don't enjoy those options then idk what else to say.

I was unaware of who they were when I replied like that tbf (I just saw the post and tweaked a bit) but the point stands.

I'd say RP has actually gone down compared to late 2024. Things are less interesting, there's less intrigue, there's overall less activity around the site because everyone has neatly nestled into categories and waiting lines for anything to be done.

You haven't improved things. You've just made them a bureaucracy.

Yes, that in itself is it's own form of roleplay.

At the end of the day though people really do need to remember that this is a game, and some level of suspension of disbelief should be applied if only for the sake of ensuring that yknow. People can actually get into the server to the point they want to naturally go through these processes - forcing it will not work long term.

The gameplay loop simply isn't designed for it.

- As an Addendum.

Sure; things are quieter, D-class are no longer instantly shot on sight due to jobs/etc being normalised, sure, there's more opportunity - but there's usually very little time to use said opportunities - Derailment aside.

Sitting around and just, yknow. Waiting for a single member of CL4 research to hop on so you can get a test properly approved sucks so much dogshit for anything remotely interesting. You need to join a larger group to have these opportunities or hold some form of whitelisted position otherwise (e.g exec/etc).

 

[Vxnt]

Wow this sucks

 

[Vizoplez]

Wow this sucks

yes

 

[Pyrite]

The point is not this specific change. This change was used as an example.

The problem is that this is a long-term trend where things can suddenly and very rapidly change with minimal communication to yknow.

Everyone that isn't in those immediate circles.

Yeah and I was also using the change you used as an example.
We cant talk to everyone who would be affected by a change because that would just be ineffective. Representatives are spoken to from departments affected, such as the research leadership if there was a change to sampling. SA are always spoken to, as well as Ethics. If it is a general policy change such as the recent one with the blast doors, that does not need to be discussed with any department outside of SA besides E-11 and ISD, but even if they weren't spoken to, I haven't seen either complain about it.

SL intervention into changes that can easily be done without it is just unneeded.

Sitting around and just, yknow. Waiting for a single member of CL4 research to hop on so you can get a test properly approved sucks so much dogshit for anything remotely interesting. You need to join a larger group to have these opportunities or hold some form of whitelisted position otherwise (e.g exec/etc).

You can do regular tests without needing approval. Its just sampling that needs a signed document. You don't have to sit around when you could be doing other things instead. If not you can go to SA.

If a major change is made, SL will say something if it's decided they need to, otherwise the change will stand. No point forcing them to do something that is either already done or not needed.

 

[YandereMuffin]

That doesn't mean it's unwarranted. We've had this repeated trend of specific people getting into specific positions of power and deciding to flip the gameplay loop for shits and giggles.

And why is that bad? Like honest question?

Why in this case of making sampling require documentation (which has been a thing for a while) a bad thing?

To me it isn't a bad thing and is actually a good thing, it used to be that the majority of D-Class tests (as a D-Class main) were spending 30 minutes sampling with little to no RP, where even if I tried to speak or interact with the SCP and researcher they would barely interact back. Now most tests I see are either interesting ones, ones that are fine RP with boring sampling being lesser.

Why do you think it was for "shits and giggles"?

Again, to me, this isn't what happened. The big ones saw an issue and attempted to fix it - this wasn't for "shits and giggles" but a direct attempt to improve the server.