Denied Rule change for raiding foundation

[RedMann]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This change would add additional rules when it comes to raiding foundation, either as CI or GOC. For the sake of ease of understanding i will refer to these rules as 3.8, 3.9 etc
The new rules would be as follows
3.8, Raiding parties can only breach an SCP proportionate to the amount of MTF units on site, 1 SCP= 3/4/5 MTF units.
3.9, If during a raid a code 5 occurs, raiding parties can not breach additional SCPs.
3.10, If breached SCPs have been breached by a raid, and a natural breach occurs, raiding parties can breach no more SCPs.
3.11, Raids cannot occur on foundation within 10/15 minutes of a code 5 being triggered or finishing.
3.12, Raids with the goal of breaching an SCP cannot occur back to back.
3.13, SCP-008 breach raids can only occur daily.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
The possible positives of this are quite simple and easy, more RP, it has become far too common for CI to do breach after breach, or right as one ends another begins, it gets repetitive quick and exhausting fast, it takes the fun out of the server to constantly be dealing with breaches. The consequences of a breach are rarely felt on surface, but in the facility you may get to do literally nothing for upwards of an hour other than die time after time. Slowing breaches would encourage more RP across the whole server and site and would make the server more fun in general.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
CI and SCP mains arent going to be happy with this and i am aware of that, i think these rules are required but i would be open to changing them, this is why i put 3/4/5 and 10/15 which ever we agree is most fair, just a general ball park. I'd much rather expand these rules with general discussion rather with the usual -support skill issue. These rules may also be negative for people who enjoy breaches and i understand that, but this server isnt a breach simulator its an RP server, and unless the SCPs are going to passive RP, which is rare, the breaches become a slog.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
For the sake of the RP value of the server, of allowing a more coherent flow of the day and for people across the server to do anything else, i think these rules, or at the very least some sort of adaptations of them should be applied.

 

[Free "Spirit"]

-support there is a max of 3 possible scps availabe to be breached at a given time you physcailly cannot breach more unless you have a breach swep which only scps have

if its made so hard to even breach scps with these rules not being allowed to in many circumstances what is the point of MTF E-11? these changes will not only simply kill SCPS also partially e-11 the entire point of having an active regiment of e-11 wth over 50 players is to PROTECT HCZ

Instead of OOC rules how about you develop new strats like ci have before in around september july etc CI could almost never make it into the foundation never mind HCZ as they usually were killed almost instantly

what e-11 need to learn is to develop new strategies instead of placing down shields how about make use of the high ground you have from your bunks you can shoot down from above the bridges making it hard for CI to cross you can block off hcz doors with brodamide preventing CI progress and buying more time for MTF back ups nu-7 / dea A1 to arrive

There is so many different possibilities e-11 could do to help defend against CI i honestly believe if e-11 had a few people that actually coordinated e-11 in the right way HCZ would be almost impossible to raid the same way it was back in september Etc

i suggest you look for IC solutions regimental changes instead of having OOC rules implemented

 

[Free "Spirit"]

3.11, Raids cannot occur on foundation within 10/15 minutes of a code 5 being triggered or finishing.

this would be hard for CI to follow specifically CI cannot see facility status they dont have the code 5 etc on their screen while foundation players do CI never know when a code 5 occurs except for code black which can be heard from CI base

 

[Mirage]

-Support
as much as i don't like raids sometimes I feel like this would be kinda unfair for CI and one of them they can't even really follow being "Raids cannot occur on foundation within 10/15 minutes of a code 5 being triggered or finishing." as they have no way of being able to tell when a C5 has started or ended

 

[Bohemia]

-Support

Cope

 

[Otters]

-Support

This aint DarkRP man

 

[Saphira Harlow]

-Support

 

[RedMann]

-support there is a max of 3 possible scps availabe to be breached at a given time you physcailly cannot breach more unless you have a breach swep which only scps have

if its made so hard to even breach scps with these rules not being allowed to in many circumstances what is the point of MTF E-11? these changes will not only simply kill SCPS also partially e-11 the entire point of having an active regiment of e-11 wth over 50 players is to PROTECT HCZ

Instead of OOC rules how about you develop new strats like ci have before in around september july etc CI could almost never make it into the foundation never mind HCZ as they usually were killed almost instantly

what e-11 need to learn is to develop new strategies instead of placing down shields how about make use of the high ground you have from your bunks you can shoot down from above the bridges making it hard for CI to cross you can block off hcz doors with brodamide preventing CI progress and buying more time for MTF back ups nu-7 / dea A1 to arrive

There is so many different possibilities e-11 could do to help defend against CI i honestly believe if e-11 had a few people that actually coordinated e-11 in the right way HCZ would be almost impossible to raid the same way it was back in september Etc

i suggest you look for IC solutions regimental changes instead of having OOC rules implemented

This is a mix of an E-11 problem solve and a server one, of course it falls to e-11 to protect the HCZ but it becomes complicated when E-11 may struggle with other issues such as activity, loadouts or even chemicals.
Of course within E-11 we try to improve the way we defend HCZ but something you have to remember about E-11 is thatt 1, it is a "starter" regiment and as such most players are new, 2, because it is a starter regiment most players dont have the same expereince as others, 3, E-11 has historically fought SCPs, not PVP, of course this is something to change but it wont happen over night, and we cant go back 9 months, people have left, the server has changed significantly between chems and HCZ completely changing the way this would work, but E-11 aside the idea of these rules is to make it fair on researchers, medical anyone trying to do anything else, of course E-11 has to change but so does the circumstances around them.

But all that is besides the point what rules would you keep and how would you alter the ones that are there? shitting on e-11 isnt a great discussion and gets us no where if we come to a fair compromise it will

 

[RedMann]

this would be hard for CI to follow specifically CI cannot see facility status they dont have the code 5 etc on their screen while foundation players do CI never know when a code 5 occurs except for code black which can be heard from CI base

how does CI usually follow the 45 minutes / 30 minutes? and i thought the breach displays in OOC anyways no?

 

[Free "Spirit"]

how does CI usually follow the 45 minutes / 30 minutes? and i thought the breach displays in OOC anyways no?

no the breach excusively shows on foundation players CI cant see the breach

im not totally against changes like this my own suggestions would be

CI may only raid HCZ once Every 1 Hour 30 Minutes

If a ci raid / deepcover causes a mass scp breach and it causes a code black to be declared and for ert to spawn CI may not breach another scp for atleast 40 minutes

i agree with your SCP 008 Change

now you are right about the server changing yes e-11 dont do combat frequently however that can be compensated for the excuse that

E-11 is thatt 1, it is a "starter" regiment and as such most players are new, 2, because it is a starter regiment most players dont have the same expereince as others,

this is the exact same for CI infact if i had to tell you all the new ci players that massively fuck up raids i would have a 2 hour long list most new Ci players cant even breach an scp not excluding lead a raid force if the leader died

a good way to end a CI raid is to kill the perosn leading it CI raids on having 1 leader if that leader dies the raid falls into shambles as no one knows how to proceed its usualyl the leader directing CI on what to do and where to go ive seen many CI raids go perfectly up until HCZ to where a lucky nu-7 lands a headshot on the delcom leading and the entire raid force has no leadership

CI actively work to improve our standards regular PVP on the surface Surface wars to engage in a high demand for being able to hack CL5S/CL4s as its hard to become a NCO without atleast being a profeccient and reliable PVP / hacker

i suggest doing more e-11 training maybe coordinate with other regiments to have e-11 reguarly engage in pvp constantly push people to their limits and only promote the best of the best in CI you only get promoted if you did very well in a raid this forces anyone who wants to rank up to improve upon themselves and by the time they reach delta

they will be a very experienced PVPer can hack CL4 reguarly and some Cl5s and has good leading capabilitys this is usually the base line as every single CI is put to their limits to even get past the enlisted rank

 

[RedMann]

no the breach excusively shows on foundation players CI cant see the breach

im not totally against changes like this my own suggestions would be

CI may only raid HCZ once Every 1 Hour 30 Minutes

If a ci raid / deepcover causes a mass scp breach and it causes a code black to be declared and for ert to spawn CI may not breach another scp for atleast 40 minutes

i agree with your SCP 008 Change

now you are right about the server changing yes e-11 dont do combat frequently however that can be compensated for the excuse that

this is the exact same for CI infact if i had to tell you all the new ci players that massively fuck up raids i would have a 2 hour long list most new Ci players cant even breach an scp not excluding lead a raid force if the leader died

a good way to end a CI raid is to kill the perosn leading it CI raids on having 1 leader if that leader dies the raid falls into shambles as no one knows how to proceed its usualyl the leader directing CI on what to do and where to go ive seen many CI raids go perfectly up until HCZ to where a lucky nu-7 lands a headshot on the delcom leading and the entire raid force has no leadership

CI actively work to improve our standards regular PVP on the surface Surface wars to engage in a high demand for being able to hack CL5S/CL4s as its hard to become a NCO without atleast being a profeccient and reliable PVP / hacker

i suggest doing more e-11 training maybe coordinate with other regiments to have e-11 reguarly engage in pvp constantly push people to their limits and only promote the best of the best in CI you only get promoted if you did very well in a raid this forces anyone who wants to rank up to improve upon themselves and by the time they reach delta

they will be a very experienced PVPer can hack CL4 reguarly and some Cl5s and has good leading capabilitys this is usually the base line as every single CI is put to their limits to even get past the enlisted rank

I really really like these ideas, i think 008 is a given but the HCZ entry and breach timer are defintley better ways of dealing with these issues, i appreciate the suggestions they're better than my own, balance always comes to be the issue with raid rules.

 

[Michael Dzhetnikov]

no L skill issue deez

 

[Trek]

-support

 

[Mickle]

-Support

Cope lmao

 

[DoomGuy]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This change would add additional rules when it comes to raiding foundation, either as CI or GOC. For the sake of ease of understanding i will refer to these rules as 3.8, 3.9 etc
The new rules would be as follows
3.8, Raiding parties can only breach an SCP proportionate to the amount of MTF units on site, 1 SCP= 3/4/5 MTF units.
3.9, If during a raid a code 5 occurs, raiding parties can not breach additional SCPs.
3.10, If breached SCPs have been breached by a raid, and a natural breach occurs, raiding parties can breach no more SCPs.
3.11, Raids cannot occur on foundation within 10/15 minutes of a code 5 being triggered or finishing.
3.12, Raids with the goal of breaching an SCP cannot occur back to back.
3.13, SCP-008 breach raids can only occur daily.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
The possible positives of this are quite simple and easy, more RP, it has become far too common for CI to do breach after breach, or right as one ends another begins, it gets repetitive quick and exhausting fast, it takes the fun out of the server to constantly be dealing with breaches. The consequences of a breach are rarely felt on surface, but in the facility you may get to do literally nothing for upwards of an hour other than die time after time. Slowing breaches would encourage more RP across the whole server and site and would make the server more fun in general.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
CI and SCP mains arent going to be happy with this and i am aware of that, i think these rules are required but i would be open to changing them, this is why i put 3/4/5 and 10/15 which ever we agree is most fair, just a general ball park. I'd much rather expand these rules with general discussion rather with the usual -support skill issue. These rules may also be negative for people who enjoy breaches and i understand that, but this server isnt a breach simulator its an RP server, and unless the SCPs are going to passive RP, which is rare, the breaches become a slog.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
For the sake of the RP value of the server, of allowing a more coherent flow of the day and for people across the server to do anything else, i think these rules, or at the very least some sort of adaptations of them should be applied.

"lets make it hell for Staff YAY"

Im sorry my man but this is just gonna cause more issues for staff and more headaches.

 

[Bill Nye The Guy]

-support, all of these issues seem to be E-11 not being able to do their job right

3.8, Raiding parties can only breach an SCP proportionate to the amount of MTF units on site, 1 SCP= 3/4/5 MTF units.

"oh wow, it seems like all of E-11 mysteriously have to go and eat when Nu-7 sight them on surface, that's a shame!"

3.9, If during a raid a code 5 occurs, raiding parties can not breach additional SCPs.

damn, i guess 912 breaching in LCZ should stop CI from breaching 682 and 7722

3.10, If breached SCPs have been breached by a raid, and a natural breach occurs, raiding parties can breach no more SCPs.

what if there's a silent breach?

3.11, Raids cannot occur on foundation within 10/15 minutes of a code 5 being triggered or finishing.

how would CI know if there's a code 5?

3.12, Raids with the goal of breaching an SCP cannot occur back to back.

there are only so many types of raid CI can do, so why would we do a keycard raid after a HCZ one if we already have a very good supply of them?

3.13, SCP-008 breach raids can only occur daily.

SL already clarified this, CI can only breach 008 once a day; we can still do 008 raids for the sake of sample testing, which we have done every single time we do a 008 raid. Hell, you probably didn't realise how many 008 tests we've done

 

[Kito]

-Support.
Not only do GOIs not have access to knowledge regarding a Code-5, but we also aren't given any information or sound queues on natural breaches. This would either:
A) Give external GOIs a way to know precisely when a Code-5 naturally occurs, with the announcement being given to us or having the code display on our HUDs, or
B) Create a rule that can be easily broken on accident, leading to staff rulings never being enforced, or raids never occuring again due to staff ruling essentially banning poorly timed raids.

The only benifit of this rule is that the Foundation has to deal with less breaches, which is the entire point of MTF E-11, the Containment Specialist role, as well as Code-3, Code-4, and Code-5. The only other potential benifit I could see from this is that research would have more time to conduct tests, but they rarely do tests(on US*) regardless of breach status, and conduct them even during breaches.

 

[Jonas Enry]

there are only so many types of raid CI can do, so why would we do a keycard raid after a HCZ one if we already have a very good supply of

Since the HCZ update all raids that have been called out have been breach raids when I have been on

I think its just the frequency of the raids that are focused on breaches. Like before the update I would say 1/3 raids was aimed at breaching SCPs rough estimate. Whereas now it seems like all of the raids are aimed at breaching.

We are also trying to adapt and do more trainings but as of late there have been so many breaches that we haven’t really had a chance to do trainings inside the new HCZ at all as we are constantly dealing with breaches or ci or something else

 

[Jonas Enry]

-Support.
Not only do GOIs not have access to knowledge regarding a Code-5, but we also aren't given any information or sound queues on natural breaches. This would either:
A) Give external GOIs a way to know precisely when a Code-5 naturally occurs, with the announcement being given to us or having the code display on our HUDs, or
B) Create a rule that can be easily broken on accident, leading to staff rulings never being enforced, or raids never occuring again due to staff ruling essentially banning poorly timed raids.

The only benifit of this rule is that the Foundation has to deal with less breaches, which is the entire point of MTF E-11, the Containment Specialist role, as well as Code-3, Code-4, and Code-5. The only other potential benifit I could see from this is that research would have more time to conduct tests, but they rarely do tests(on US*) regardless of breach status, and conduct them even during breaches

On uk a lot of reaserchers want to do more elaborate tests and things like cross tests but the near constant breaches have interrupted them. I also think Co rewards for dealing damage to SCPs should go up completely unrelated but.

 

[Biscuits]

+Support

3.8, Raiding parties can only breach an SCP proportionate to the amount of MTF units on site, 1 SCP= 3/4/5 MTF units.
3.10, If breached SCPs have been breached by a raid, and a natural breach occurs, raiding parties can breach no more SCPs.
3.12, Raids with the goal of breaching an SCP cannot occur back to back.

I agree with these rules the most, the other ones either restrict CI too much or dont seem needed imo.