Rule Suggestion Saint's Solution

[L.Saint]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
TL;DR Edit MTF/GoI activity, promotion and RP expectations/requirements to allow players to focus on the core gameplay loop departments.

Overview:
Activity on the server as well as RP as a whole has been on the decline [Uk], I specifically blame this on the fact the 3 Core Gameplay-Loop departments (GenSec, Research and Medical) are underplayed as well as having their duties assigned elsewhere.

But how does this affect anything!?
MTF Activity, on the server takes up about 20-40% (anywhere from 20-40 players) of all players at all times. This takes activity away from core departments depriving players of RP and damaging the servers Core Gameplay/RP loop which is testing.

But what do we do about this!?
Reduce activity expectations for MTFs. MTFs are not the main attraction of the server. If you are a member of an MTF, you are expected to flag on, do your related RP/job on the site then FLAG OFF to a core department.

Epsilon-11: You should combat breaches, and provide escorts for high risk tests. You should not be sat in HCZ doing the job of the General Security department.

Nu-7: You should be the Foundation's main fighting force on the surface, if CI act up respond and deal with it. If there is an event/RP on the surface secure the area and when it's done return to a core department.

Alpha-1 / Omega-1: We should only be on the job to provide escorts, assist in orders and engage in ISD/SC specific RP. Once it is over we should return to a core department.

CI/GOC: External GoIs should do their faction specific activity and then return to a core department, CI should raid, do any weaponization testing, then engage in any surface RP then flag off. The GOC should...

But I don't want to flag off!
Unfortunately, this is just how the jobs must be played to promote/create the most RP. I promise everyone that is reluctant to change their job there will be a minimal change to the content and RP you engage in on the server, and that which does change will be mostly positive.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Probably, but it's more relevant now than ever

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+ More activity in core departments
+ More RP
+ More diverse activity
+ Better player retention
+ Less lag (Less entities like vehicles)

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- Less MTF presence
- Loss of certain players

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
This is a change I think can only benefit the frequency and quality of RP on the server, I'm not ignorant enough as to not understand that not everyone will support, agree with or even follow this change if it goes through. But, if the number of players on the server engaging with the Core Departments and Gameplay-Loop is increased enough it will improve server health as well as make the server more enjoyable.

 

[Alpa]

especially when they could be contributing RP elsewhere.

"You aren't contributing RP to the places I want you to contribute RP"

Purely common sense and the idea to revert the server back to the way it was around a year ago.

The server did not work like this a year ago, it has always worked like how it currently has, it also hasn't really been an issue until the whole "Remove SC and ISD" suggestion.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+ More RP
+ More diverse activity

None of these points are actually what would happen, removing departments would not increase RP, it would create LESS RP, you are removing avenues of RP for players and restricting it to DEA, Medical, Research, GSD. That objectively results in less diverse activity and less chances for RP to occur since people arent passively playing the roles as much.

Like I said a bit above, this suggestion just arbitrarily labels the RP that comes out of core departments as "better" than the RP that comes out of MTFs, which simply isn't true. This would essentially cripple GOC too as you cannot reasonably enforce GOC doing their core duties as it is so broad and varied. CI would end up just being raid -> flag off -> raid -> flag off, which is horrible for RP within CI and would cripple that entire avenue of RP since there is no incentive to continue playing outside of "core duties".

The suggestion, if implemented would lead to players with certain whitelists to job abuse, if you only require activity when there is something happening (like a CI raid) it could just result in job abuse.
(1.9 Don’t Job Abuse - Do not abuse your job; this is where you change jobs to give yourself benefits/advantages under certain circumstances. For example, you are playing Chef and see a D-Class escaping so you switch jobs to security to shoot the D-Class.)
Flagging on Nu7 to specifically combat a CI raid would fall under this, which is what is proposed as what Nu7 would have to do if this suggestion was accepted.

Also the whole argument of "MTFs are taking away the jobs of core departments", what do you think would happen if they couldn't play the MTF? They would just take the job regardless as the appropriate job. I understand that is an issue, yes, however this is the completely wrong way to tackle it. The only job I can see as 100% being taken by MTF currently anyway is guarding HCZ, which isn't really something I think a lot of GSD complain about not being able / having to do. Everything else is MTF helping the core departments do their duties, which is still what would happen if they couldn't play their MTF. It kind of just seems like a situation of "They can't do my job because they have to be on my exact whitelist to do it!", when in reality it changes nothing and if they couldn't be on an MTF job they would just get on the gsd whitelist / whatever else.

This suggestion is an active detriment to the possible avenues of RP you can engage in as a player and arbitrarily decides that MTF/GOI RP is bad and all other RP is good, which isn't the case and isn't how the server is designed.

Keep in mind, no matter what suggestion gets made, someone who actively playes a role and mains the role is still going to be promoted quicker than someone who only flags on for the "core duty", that is just how a server like this works.

 

[Dr Random K.]

-support
WE KILLING REGIMENT RP WITH THIS ONE

 

[Gure]

-support shit suggestopnb

 

[Sylveon]

-Support

I think making the public Departments more interesting to play and work with is a better solution. For Example, GENSEC shouldn't really be a public department. They should have a whole structure, things to do, fun loadouts, and other things.

The Issue isn't the MTF's, because MTF's are fun to play, and people actively want to join one. The Issue is nobody wants to main public departments, which means public departments get over looked.

The Faults of GENSEC being unable to actually be site security isn't because of MTF's, its because GENSEC is poorly implemented and they end up being glorified Prison Guards, due to this nobody wants to play GENSEC full time, and those that do, generally hate it.

I am a firm believe that GENSEC should be more, but this is not the fault of MTF's.

 

[L.Saint]

To repeat my points in a more condensed format:
No one is required to not play MTFs when they want to, this change would make it so those that aim to progress in those roles are able to without spending the majority of their time on the server on that MTF job.

I understand GoI/MTF RP is on the server, but (On the UK at least) it can be lacking at times, I think players would have a much easier time creating/engaging with RP in a core department rather than an MTF, so I aim to have the least disruptive solution implemented which is:
Edit MTF/GoI activity, promotion and RP expectations/requirements

I am in no way suggesting to 'Remove MTFs jobs' or to 'Removes MTFs from the server' or even to 'Force players onto the jobs which make RP creation easier and create RP more accessible to newer players as well as the rest of the server which doesn't have a Clearance 4 position.'

 

[Pyro]

I don't understand, If I wish to play Alpha-1 I will play Alpha-1 regardless of if there's O5 on or not.

 

[L.Saint]

I don't understand, If I wish to play Alpha-1 I will play Alpha-1 regardless of if there's O5 on or not.

Yes, you can!

 

[Emilia Foddg]

Epsilon-11: You should combat breaches, and provide escorts for high risk tests. You should not be sat in HCZ doing the job of the General Security department.

Nu-7: You should be the Foundation's main fighting force on the surface, if CI act up respond and deal with it. If there is an event/RP on the surface secure the area and when it's done return to a core department.

Alpha-1 / Omega-1: We should only be on the job to provide escorts, assist in orders and engage in ISD/SC specific RP. Once it is over we should return to a core department.

CI/GOC: External GoIs should do their faction specific activity and then return to a core department, CI should raid, do any weaponization testing, then engage in any surface RP then flag off. The GOC should...

To repeat my points in a more condensed format:
No one is required to not play MTFs when they want to, this change would make it so those that aim to progress in those roles are able to without spending the majority of their time on the server on that MTF job.

I understand GoI/MTF RP is on the server, but (On the UK at least) it can be lacking at times, I think players would have a much easier time creating/engaging with RP in a core department rather than an MTF, so I aim to have the least disruptive solution implemented which is:
Edit MTF/GoI activity, promotion and RP expectations/requirements

I am in no way suggesting to 'Remove MTFs jobs' or to 'Removes MTFs from the server' or even to 'Force players onto the jobs which make RP creation easier and create RP more accessible to newer players as well as the rest of the server which doesn't have a Clearance 4 position.'

...then why did you make a suggestion instead of bringing it up with each individual leads of these MTFs/GOIs?

i mean yes, staff can step in and say "hey, in the interest of server health, could you maybe do this or that, etc." but usually the things you're asking to be changed, are decided by the people in charge of E-11, Nu-7, A-1, etc. is the point of this suggestion to be a message to staff, to say that they should look into how these things are being run, with the aim of toning down things like activity expectations in favour of promoting activity in core departments?

because if so, i generally agree - i would probably still be an E-11 CPT if there was less responsibility and expectation from the position, if i could play it more casually instead of having to constantly tend to a dozen duties at once. i would have happily continued to run the roster and shown up from time to time to do things (as for the "how do lower ranks fulfil reqs and such with absentee COs? how do they get necessary CL4 stuff done with absentee COs?" question, i would just... remove the cap on how many COs you're allowed to have. or just make it a significant amount, like 20 total. but then of course, you have to manage what is now basically a platoon of people in jr. CL4 positions and i get that that is probably a nightmare in terms of things like trust, etc.), but i ended up resigning as i just got far too overwhelmed and i didn't want to keep taking LOAs because people need COs for things.

 

[L.Saint]

...then why did you make a suggestion instead of bringing it up with each individual leads of these MTFs/GOIs?

i mean yes, staff can step in and say "hey, in the interest of server health, could you maybe do this or that, etc." but usually the things you're asking to be changed, are decided by the people in charge of E-11, Nu-7, A-1, etc. is the point of this suggestion to be a message to staff, to say that they should look into how these things are being run, with the aim of toning down things like activity expectations in favour of promoting activity in core departments?

because if so, i generally agree - i would probably still be an E-11 CPT if there was less responsibility and expectation from the position, if i could play it more casually instead of having to constantly tend to a dozen duties at once. i would have happily continued to run the roster and shown up from time to time to do things (as for the "how do lower ranks fulfil reqs and such with absentee COs? how do they get necessary CL4 stuff done with absentee COs?" question, i would just... remove the cap on how many COs you're allowed to have. or just make it a significant amount, like 20 total. but then of course, you have to manage what is now basically a platoon of people in jr. CL4 positions and i get that that is probably a nightmare in terms of things like trust, etc.), but i ended up resigning as i just got far too overwhelmed and i didn't want to keep taking LOAs because people need COs for things.

I put this suggestion on the forums to bring awareness to what I think is an issue on the server and engage community feedback, staff intervention from the content team on a server health basis would be great. However, I believe this will ultimately come down to the RP-Leaders of the server forming their own perspective on this idea.

I honestly could of reached out to RP-Leaders beforehand but it hadn't crossed my mind, I would be happy to do so as long as it's not overstepping.

 

[Jam]

@Jason M.

will change my point to neutral. I still believe it is basically something very hard or impossible to push. You saying that you want this server to be like it was a year ago is actually so mutual that I wish that was the case. I made a suggestion to SL before about making CI completely deep-cover dependant with a 25-player regiment cap like with GOC once, which would've had the benefit of having an actual infiltration roleplay that would have tasks to do to level a form of "infiltration chaos" in which the end phase of the infiltration was to send in a elite chaos team which would've functioned like a ERT version for CI to raid foundation. So basically they'd have to make progress through passive interactions in infiltration to then access a proper raid.

 

[pinhead]

@Jason M.

will change my point to neutral. I still believe it is basically something very hard or impossible to push. You saying that you want this server to be like it was a year ago is actually so mutual that I wish that was the case. I made a suggestion to SL before about making CI completely deep-cover dependant with a 25-player regiment cap like with GOC once, which would've had the benefit of having an actual infiltration roleplay that would have tasks to do to level a form of "infiltration chaos" in which the end phase of the infiltration was to send in a elite chaos team which would've functioned like a ERT version for CI to raid foundation. So basically they'd have to make progress through passive interactions in infiltration to then access a proper raid.

thats like genuinely a really good idea, just too big of a change probably

 

[J. 'Eidolon' Shekelstein]

-support

This is a player issue. If you want to make changes to site-wide policy then you put the hours in to promote up to Site Administration, O5 and Ethics and then work with them to implement positive change.

 

[Merrick Travolta]

I understand the core gameplay loops of the server are severely effected by most of the playerbase being ISD/MTF.

This however is a weird solution of forcing people to play other departments to facilitate RP.

I agree with the idea of removing forced activity requirements. Not. With the idea of forcing someone off their role because the server needs people on X and Y role.

 

[auburn wick gramme]

let me hop off combat mtf to play combat job and do the same stuff i did while on mtf

 

[L.Saint]

No one is required to not play MTFs when they want to

forcing people to play other departments

Edit MTF/GoI activity, promotion and RP expectations/requirements to allow players to focus on the core gameplay loop departments

 

[Merrick Travolta]

To be fair, When I wrote my reply, That one hadn't yet posted on my end for whatever reason

 

[Pyrite]

- Support

"We going to force you to play jobs that you dont want to just because you are not needed on your other role"

If I am the DoM lets say and also an E-11 SGT. Im in a very important meeting but a Code 5 suddenly begins, am I going to have to tell all those people in the meeting "Oh sorry im needed on E-11 now"

This is going to ruin RP more than fix it. What happens when a researcher wants a document approved by an E-11 CO, but oh wait! Hes on Doctor cause theres no need for him to really be on E-11. Or how about Nu-7, if they are the military of the Foundation wouldnt they be needed 24/7? How are we expected to defend against a CI raid when all of Nu-7 flag on 5 minutes after theyre all inside already.

ISD have constant orders, duties, projects etc that would require them to be on their respective ISD jobs when theyre available. We arent going to get off just because an O5 or ECM didnt want to come on today.

What happens if this does go through? Resignations, quitting the server, if they do stick around then you will have an unmotivated playerbase thats forced onto a job instead of playing what they want to.

You cannot force RP onto a regiment by destroying others RP, thats not how it works.

This is a player issue, if people dont want to play a department then tough shit, its happened in the past, its happening now and it will continue to happen. If a department is unappealing then thats an issue for the Department Leads and Site Administration.

Let people play what they want, let people RP how they want and dont tell them to go play something else because it would "be better for the RP creation"

 

[Niox]

- Support

"We going to force you to play jobs that you dont want to just because you are not needed on your other role"

To repeat my points in a more condensed format:
No one is required to not play MTFs when they want to

 

[Tay]

- Support

These suggestions that keep trying to make the server something it isn't, nor can be without cutting off half the player base need to stop. Either wait for Site 9 or try playing something that lands in your strike zone. Most people play civil because we enjoy how it currently is, sure some minor improvements are always welcome, but changes like these are too much to consider.

Also, activity on UK is dropping due to lag, not because of boredom of current duties, the only reason you see it like that is because you yourself are bored of the server as you've played it for years.

 

[Deleted member 1078]

- Support this sounds like something Hitler would do which is bad.