The sorry state, and eventual end of CC

[WyMafia]

I think I speak for the majority of the CC community when saying that I had high hopes and was excited for 4.0.

The promise of finally putting the community first, instead of just having the senior/management team make stupid mistake after stupid mistake.
The promise of regular townhalls to collect player feedback, so a happy playerbase could be insured.
The promise of a new in depth police system where you'd work your way thru the ranks, no matter who you were.
The promise of regular updates, so that even if the server was to grow stale, change was coming.

Unfortunately, none of this happened. Not for long anyhow.

The server was plagued with issues on launch, which are still there to this day.
Instead of fixing these issues, the development team spent time on mostly useless stuff, such as menu's, the chat system, suited citizen, etc.

There hasn't been a town hall for several months, even when it's been wanted by the playerbase for months.
That's unfortunately how most the 4.0 has been. Not listening to the playerbase.

But, to give credit where its due, I have to Thank @Onariz for the EVOP system. It might be one of the best things to happen to CC, but its just wasn't enough, and there hasn't been one for a month.

I don't want to call anyone out, but unfortunately there is a member of the CC management team, who wont listen to reason, doesn't listen to the playerbase, cant even admit when wrong, attacks anyone who oppose him, and always thinks he knows best.

He's made it impossible for the server to flourish, both in the end of 3.0 and 4.0. He thinks the reason that CC is dying, is because other servers are stealing CC's players, when it couldn't be further from the truth. CC isn't losing players to other servers who are "botting" their playercount, they are losing players, because they dont care about them. The CC playerbase gets fucked at every turn, and consistently gets ignored or shit on by the CC management team.

I for one, tried my hardest to suggest changes that would benefit the server, because I wanted it to be a success, as it was in the past.

 

[Nusk]

As WyMafia stated there was a lot of hype for cc 4.0 and it showed with the player base to start with but as it carried out alot of the community was disappointed and felt like they had no voice on what they would like to see on the server.

I currently feel like the server is just cating towards new players and forgetting about the long existing members that still want to play.

Basing was adjusted but a majority of the community wanted ventzcoin to be sellable and we just got the simple answer of no. Sure printing made money but the current VC eco is useless and the items you can buy isn’t worth it.

There’s a lot more points that can be made and in the monthly town halls we was promised this could of being brought up.

 

[S1lent]

As someone who have been in the community for a very very long time, i can agree with every single point you made over here, not only that but after the launch of CC4.0 there was even less things to do or to grind for. We can use MRP as an example over here how the management of MRP listens to the playerbase and make fun changes and useful changes unlike CC.

 

[S1lent]

As WyMafia stated there was a lot of hype for cc 4.0 and it showed with the player base to start with but as it carried out alot of the community was disappointed and felt like they had no voice on what they would like to see on the server.

I currently feel like the server is just cating towards new players and forgetting about the long existing members that still want to play.

Basing was adjusted but a majority of the community wanted ventzcoin to be sellable and we just got the simple answer of no. Sure printing made money but the current VC eco is useless and the items you can buy isn’t worth it.

There’s a lot more points that can be made and in the monthly town halls we was promised this could of being brought up.

Yeah somehow they managed to make the server even more unfriendly for new players. there is also no reason to base or to grind for anything really there is a lack of weapons, cars,rare weapons things that expi to grind for or something fun in general, also i hate how they made crime just useless you get 4k for a full bag of gold or 2k from a casino bag but you can get 4k if not more from a dead persons body

 

[Connor | FUDGESICLE]

Bring back VCminers

 

[Nusk]

Bring back VCminers

well there is vcminers but with a unique economy

 

[Majestick]

Like most people have said they were looking forward to CC4.0 as it was giving me a fresh start and I was pushing for an eco wipe and a big update to the server but unfortunately the release of it was rushed and kind of scuffed littered with bugs and lack of basing areas and also lots of good content being removed from the server which was not needed to be removed.
Also the whole eco change was not well thought out as the risk to reward was not there also the whole PD system was terrible people who were allocated as the commander just promoted all of there mates like CCSF and the jobs were completely overpowered and the guns what were obtainable for criminals just did no damage or was completely uncontrollable. The basing side of the server what most people liked and enjoyed paid out no money or was too expensive to risk setting up as it would take way too long to pay back. The gangs who came back to the server as they were looking forward to the wipe of CC and having a fresh start and doing the grind to being the best org logged on setup a base and saw how low the pay outs was for everything and then left so that was around 7-8+ people right there gone the player count from the server launching was full slots then the next day dropped by around 50% and then has just declined from there due to the lack of money making methods as they want to focus everything on not being around basing which is a good thing but for the players and gangs who want to base and make a decent amount of money are just not catered for as they want to get rid of basing which is not fair as most people who played in 3.0 and so on enjoyed basing as it was a huge part of the server.

Removing content and making everything simple and bland just to cater to new players is not a good decision because if you want to keep new players on the server making everything simple and easy is also making it simple and boring as you are able to dive into everything without the need to learn or ask people an example of this was removing VCMiners because new players don't know how to use them this was a very bad decision because it was a great piece of content what was made and then thrown away purely because new people don't know how to use them but everyone was a new player at some point and would have asked someone or joined a gang and learnt how to set them up and use them. Then VCMiners were added back but they were made pretty much completely useless as you could not sell VTC for money and the stuff you can buy with it is minimum and nothing really worth spending the VTC on to set them up and mine the coin the whole point of this change was because VCMiners made too much money but the devs have access to change how much the coins are worth and how many coins are mined so this is an easy change to make to fix them and balance them around the new eco as the whole VTC being its own eco did not go to plan as no one wants to buy them due to the lack of stuff you can do with them/buy with them. Also when people made a complaint about the stamina system as not everyone wants to drive around the map and people enjoyed the freedom of being able to run around the map they tried to basically blackmail and say that if we remove stamina then we are gonna scrap the work on some medical addon because it was apparently apart of it which is completely unfair to players as you should not say something like that and try and make us stick with something we clearly do not agree with purely to get something else added.

I get that the server also needs to gain new players to stay alive and not just have the same people all the time but its now gotten to the point where they just want new players and to get rid of the old players but we have stuck with the server for years and have also been on the server when it has had low players before but because our opinions are somewhat unfiltered but its because we want the server to do well and we say when we think a change is bad we will say it but that's because some of the changes are bad like removing the VCMiners at the start of 4.0 and most players were fighting for them back and even in the Townhall when someone brought up the fact they want to see the VCMiners come back they were just shutdown by the leadership team and basically threatened for there opinion. But back to the point of new players yes you should listen to new players feedback but some of the stuff they suggest is terrible and they have not spent enough time on the server to understand the impact of what they want changing can have on other people an example of this is removing the steel lockpick being able to lockpick a fading door which was made by a new player and because one of the senior staff had been suggesting this for a long time they got the person to make a suggestion and low and behold it was instantly accepted purely because the staff member wanted it changed but most players on the server did not agree with this change and there is nothing we could do about it because a senior staff member wanted it changed and this change would completely change how raiding worked.

Thanks for taking the time to read it if you did as there is a lot of stuff and I am shit at structuring this shit etc so...

 

[Chetso]

I'd like to give my opinion on this! While CC 4.0 had a bit of a rocky start, it's turned around and is becoming a better, and more community-involved server. Suggestions are being accepted and added based on the communities reaction to them, however, these updates take time, and the developers of the server have lives outside of CC, they're doing their best and trying their hardest to make the server more enjoyable. And the staff member you're talking about has had to put up with the exact same attitude from users, who decide to be rude, aggressive, and insulting when it comes to making changes to the server, and I think he deserves a little slack considering how hard he still works on making the server more enjoyable. The rocky start to 4.0 isn't entirely the fault of the management team either, as when 4.0 was being released, there was a townhall, with vote after vote on all of the changes that would be made, e.g VCminers being removed, 50 people upvoted that decision, and changing the map to riverden was also upvoted, even after they had a trial run of it. The management team began fixing bugs and issues with Riverden immediately, and the map update has been released now. I've had my own issues with CC in the past, and argued with staff about changes, but you come to find out that most of the changes that people ask for have underlying reasons why they can't be applied to the server, and I think communication, respect and a little compromise would benefit us all greatly!

 

[Nusk]

As WyMafia stated there was a lot of hype for cc 4.0 and it showed with the player base to start with but as it carried out alot of the community was disappointed and felt like they had no voice on what they would like to see on the server.

I currently feel like the server is just cating towards new players and forgetting about the long existing members that still want to play.

Basing was adjusted but a majority of the community wanted ventzcoin to be sellable and we just got the simple answer of no. Sure printing made money but the current VC eco is useless and the items you can buy isn’t worth it.

There’s a lot more points that can be made and in the monthly town halls we was promised this could of being brought up.

I’d like to just add that i hope all points get read through and thought about no matter about the players history. I hope everyone that commented on this wants cc to be revived

 

[WyMafia]

I'd like to give my opinion on this! While CC 4.0 had a bit of a rocky start, it's turned around and is becoming a better, and more community-involved server. Suggestions are being accepted and added based on the communities reaction to them, however, these updates take time, and the developers of the server have lives outside of CC, they're doing their best and trying their hardest to make the server more enjoyable. And the staff member you're talking about has had to put up with the exact same attitude from users, who decide to be rude, aggressive, and insulting when it comes to making changes to the server, and I think he deserves a little slack considering how hard he still works on making the server more enjoyable. The rocky start to 4.0 isn't entirely the fault of the management team either, as when 4.0 was being released, there was a townhall, with vote after vote on all of the changes that would be made, e.g VCminers being removed, 50 people upvoted that decision, and changing the map to riverden was also upvoted, even after they had a trial run of it. The management team began fixing bugs and issues with Riverden immediately, and the map update has been released now. I've had my own issues with CC in the past, and argued with staff about changes, but you come to find out that most of the changes that people ask for have underlying reasons why they can't be applied to the server, and I think communication, respect and a little compromise would benefit us all greatly!

Communication goes both ways. Clearly, whatever the senior staff team is doing, ain't working. I have a hard time showing respect or leniency towards tyrants who attack anyone who disagrees with him. While its perfectly reasonable that people have lives outside of cc, that doesn't change that the time spent on CC development is mostly in the wrong places.

The promise of regular town halls was what brought a lot of people back, and if i remember correctly, there hasn't been any in 4.0 (other than the one right after release. Another example is Vorgs2 and the rules associated with territory wars. Most of the issues with that system was brought up when it was released back in 3.0, and still haven't been fixed to this day, yet another example of where dev time could've been used very effectively.

While approving and denying suggestions is great, fixing the core issues with the server, has clearly taken a backseat to whatever the devs wanted to work on.

 

[Jones]

A town hall wouldn’t be a bad idea soon as we do need a platform to voice solutions

 

[Majestick]

A town hall wouldn’t be a bad idea soon as we do need a platform to voice solutions

Agreed a town hall needs to be done soon to address the issues with the server and to also convince players to join back.

I might not play the server that often anymore but I certainly do not want it to die all the other servers are doing great and hitting consistent player counts daily CC has the potential to join these other servers and be popular there just needs to be stuff to do on the server and things for people to grind for as of right now I don't really see anything worth grinding for .

 

[Hydro]

Communication goes both ways. Clearly, whatever the senior staff team is doing, ain't working. I have a hard time showing respect or leniency towards tyrants who attack anyone who disagrees with him. While its perfectly reasonable that people have lives outside of cc, that doesn't change that the time spent on CC development is mostly in the wrong places.

The promise of regular town halls was what brought a lot of people back, and if i remember correctly, there hasn't been any in 4.0 (other than the one right after release. Another example is Vorgs2 and the rules associated with territory wars. Most of the issues with that system was brought up when it was released back in 3.0, and still haven't been fixed to this day, yet another example of where dev time could've been used very effectively.

While approving and denying suggestions is great, fixing the core issues with the server, has clearly taken a backseat to whatever the devs wanted to work on.

I really hope that those maintaining CivilCity completely ignore every word you've got to say. There are loads of people who are genuinely trying to help the server, adding constructive feedback and offering their expertise on matters, but posts like this undermines the entire "movement" and really taints the whole thing.

My apologies in advance because I'm not going to sugar coat any of this. This is aimed at you WyMafia, I really hope that if CC recovers that you aren't part of it. You constantly launch barrages of attacks against those running the server and even in a thread containing mostly constructive criticism you sit there and shit on the only developers who've actually been putting time into helping CivilCity. Suggestions are suggestions, and criticism is criticism, but the fact that you have the gall to insult the human beings who've invested literally thousands of hours into the server by calling them "tyrants" is quite frankly bang out of order. This is on-top of the countless number of times that you've tried to start random arguments on the Discord whilst firing abuse at those involved.

Even now, in the OP and in your responses you choose to single out obviously identifiable individuals to bully them on our platform. This is NOT on.

Lots of the points in this thread are totally valid, but also there's some responsibility that needs to be taken by select members of the community who insist on making it as toxic and unwelcoming as is humanly possible. Whether it was forcing people to quit the server by raiding them on cooldown, or knowingly abusing exploits, or protecting cheaters by covering for them, the whole situation is laughable.

I am no longer Network Leadership, and I also have very little sway as far as CivilCity goes, but I really hope that somebody reading this who does decides to stamp out your tripe so the rest of the community can have a sensible and grown up conversation that doesn't involve shitslinging

 

[WyMafia]

I really hope that those maintaining CivilCity completely ignore every word you've got to say. There are loads of people who are genuinely trying to help the server, adding constructive feedback and offering their expertise on matters, but posts like this undermines the entire "movement" and really taints the whole thing.

My apologies in advance because I'm not going to sugar coat any of this. This is aimed at you WyMafia, I really hope that if CC recovers that you aren't part of it. You constantly launch barrages of attacks against those running the server and even in a thread containing mostly constructive criticism you sit there and shit on the only developers who've actually been putting time into helping CivilCity. Suggestions are suggestions, and criticism is criticism, but the fact that you have the gall to insult the human beings who've invested literally thousands of hours into the server by calling them "tyrants" is quite frankly bang out of order. This is on-top of the countless number of times that you've tried to start random arguments on the Discord whilst firing abuse at those involved.

Even now, in the OP and in your responses you choose to single out obviously identifiable individuals to bully them on our platform. This is NOT on.

Lots of the points in this thread are totally valid, but also there's some responsibility that needs to be taken by select members of the community who insist on making it as toxic and unwelcoming as is humanly possible. Whether it was forcing people to quit the server by raiding them on cooldown, or knowingly abusing exploits, or protecting cheaters by covering for them, the whole situation is laughable.

I am no longer Network Leadership, and I also have very little sway as far as CivilCity goes, but I really hope that somebody reading this who does decides to stamp out your tripe so the rest of the community can have a sensible and grown up conversation that doesn't involve shitslinging

Thank you for taking your time to respond.

Your comments make it very clear that you haven't been on the other end of the stick, when it comes to the staff member in question. While I couldn't be happier that that individual is a developer for the server, and has done great work in the past, that unfortunately doesn't change the fact that he mostly ignores the opinion of the playerbase (which led to the server dying in 3.0) and when he doesn't, he spends that opportunity to attack people and their views, instead of having an actual dialogue.

And to be fair, I might have made it too obvious who I was talking about, but its hard hiding an elephant with towel. Its hard to discuss such a big issue, without giving a certain amount of detail. I know for a fact that both in "my" friend group, and the others than I speak to, that the reason they left, is because of the attitude and treatment they've received from the certain individual, or the changes that he's made to the server.

To address what youre saying about toxicity, abusing exploits and protecting cheaters.

I have never, and will never cover for a cheater on CC. I've help catch cheater in the past, because that shit simply doesnt belong on CC. It ruins it for everyone.

I don't know what exploits you are talking about, but every exploit I know and have found, have been reported. Even though I've never gotten anything for it, no credit or anything alike. Rarely do I even get an answer when I've reported mechanic-breaking exploits, like the recent one I reported where you steal everything from Factorian players. Not even a response.

Now speaking of Toxicity. I have been known to be quite toxic, and lead a toxic group of people.
I dont deny any of this, but I've done my best in 4.0 not to involve new players or randomers who dont like that "type of gameplay". If you talk shit, you get hit. While this has been my intention in 4.0, my reputation will continue to suffer for what I did in the past, which doesnt bother me.

No one knows the "movement" you speak of, as well as me. Go look at EVOPs, and you'll quickly realize that no one has sunk as much time or ingame money into testing the systems in question. So dont come talk to me about "tainting" it. That "movement" has long been mostly ignored, and didnt really get anything done until @Onariz became head of the content team, so what the point of "playing nice" when you get ignored if you do?

Lastly, I used to be very happy with the "tyrant", but he simply started shitting on the majority of the playerbase, so no matter how many thousands of hours he's put into the server, he's managed to kill the server twice. His decisions and actions have almost directly led to the downfall of cc for a huge amount of the players.

Good day sir

 

[Hydro]

Thank you for taking your time to respond.

Your comments make it very clear that you haven't been on the other end of the stick, when it comes to the staff member in question. While I couldn't be happier that that individual is a developer for the server, and has done great work in the past, that unfortunately doesn't change the fact that he mostly ignores the opinion of the playerbase (which led to the server dying in 3.0) and when he doesn't, he spends that opportunity to attack people and their views, instead of having an actual dialogue.

And to be fair, I might have made it too obvious who I was talking about, but its hard hiding an elephant with towel. Its hard to discuss such a big issue, without giving a certain amount of detail. I know for a fact that both in "my" friend group, and the others than I speak to, that the reason they left, is because of the attitude and treatment they've received from the certain individual, or the changes that he's made to the server.

To address what youre saying about toxicity, abusing exploits and protecting cheaters.

I have never, and will never cover for a cheater on CC. I have help catch cheater in the past, because that shit simply doesnt belong on CC. It ruins it for everyone.

I don't know what exploits you are talking about, but every exploit I know and have found, have been reported. Even though I've never gotten anything for it, no credit or anything alike. Rarely do I even get an answer when I've reported mechanic-breaking exploits, like the recent one I reported where you steal everything from Factorian players. Not even a response.

Now speaking of Toxicity. I have been known to be quite toxic, and lead a toxic group of people.
I dont deny any of this, but I've done my best in 4.0 not to involve new players or randomers who dont like that "type of gameplay". If you talk shit, you get hit. While this has been my intention in 4.0, my reputation will continue to suffer for what I did in the past, which doesnt bother me.

No one knows the "movement" you speak of, as well as me. Go look at EVOPs, and you'll quickly realize that no one has sunk has much time or ingame money into testing the systems in question. So dont come talk to me about "tainting" it. That "movement" has long been mostly ignored, and didnt really get anything done until @Onariz became head of the content team, so what the point of "playing nice" when you get ignored if you do?

Lastly, I used to be very happy with the "tyrant", but he simply started shitting on the majority of the playerbase, so no matter how many thousands of hours he's put into the server, he's managed to kill the server twice. His decisions and actions have almost directly led to the downfall for cc for a huge amount of the players.

Good day sir

I appreciate that you've spent a great deal of hours on the server, and I truly do believe that you care for the survival of it, but your approach is off the rails and counter productive at best.

Let me address this point by point because my last response was written quite quickly.

The movement I referred to was this post. I acknowledge lots of people care about the server, but it won't take much to convert this from a constructive discussion to one that's just hating on individuals.

Regarding cheating, exploits and toxicity; those three points weren't targetted specifically and solely at you. I appreciate you touching on the toxicity point and explaining your side of the story, and perhaps you weren't involved in all of those things listed, but the culture and environment created by the aforementioned toxicity was a breeding ground for the cheating and exploits. As somebody that's been in the community for so long I don't think it's unfair to hold you to a high standard, so responsibility has to be taken regarding this.

With regards to why I think your approach is counterproductive, the fact of the matter is that without the support provided by the individual/individuals you are targetting, CC will simply die. With all of the knowledge I have of the operational side of the CivilGamers network, I can pretty much guarantee that the holes left in the server by the departure of targetted individuals would without question not be filled. If they're harassed to the point where they leave the server please be under no illusion that I would NOT jump in their place, and I'm fairly confident that those with the neccessary disciplines within the community wouldn't do so either.

In all my years of playing Garry's Mod I can count on one hand the number of people who have the shear amount of technical ability and drive that's undisputably been one of the pillars holding the community up. The fact CivilCity still receives maintainance and a constant flow of free work from said individuals is quite honestly a gift. Any true "OG's" from CivilCity will remember how it used to get literally two updates per year.

What CC has now is what it has, it'll fluctuate and people will move around, but fundamentally not much can change managerially and developmentally. Funnily enough, CivilCity was in a scarily similar situation around 12 months ago, and the work undertaken by server management turned it around and gave it another year of life. A dramatic shift in attitude is neccessary.

(to be continued, but I have no time right now)

 

[WyMafia]

I appreciate that you've spent a great deal of hours on the server, and I truly do believe that you care for the survival of it, but your approach is off the rails and counter productive at best.

Let me address this point by point because my last response was written quite quickly.

The movement I referred to was this post. I acknowledge lots of people care about the server, but it won't take much to convert this from a constructive discussion to one that's just hating on individuals.

Regarding cheating, exploits and toxicity; those three points weren't targetted specifically and solely at you. I appreciate you touching on the toxicity point and explaining your side of the story, and perhaps you weren't involved in all of those things listed, but the culture and environment created by the aforementioned toxicity was a breeding ground for the cheating and exploits. As somebody that's been in the community for so long I don't think it's unfair to hold you to a high standard, so responsibility has to be taken regarding this.

With regards to why I think your approach is counterproductive, the fact of the matter is that without the support provided by the individual/individuals you are targetting, CC will simply die. With all of the knowledge I have of the operational side of the CivilGamers network, I can pretty much guarantee that the holes left in the server by the departure of targetted individuals would without question not be filled. If they're harassed to the point where they leave the server please be under no illusion that I would NOT jump in their place, and I'm fairly confident that those with the neccessary disciplines within the community wouldn't do so either.

In all my years of playing Garry's Mod I can count on one hand the number of people who have the shear amount of technical ability and drive that's undisputably been one of the pillars holding the community up. The fact CivilCity still receives maintainance and a constant flow of free work from said individuals is quite honestly a gift. Any true "OG's" from CivilCity will remember how it used to get literally two updates per year.

What CC has now is what it has, it'll fluctuate and people will move around, but fundamentally not much can change managerially and developmentally. Funnily enough, CivilCity was in a scarily similar situation around 12 months ago, and the work undertaken by server management turned it around and gave it another year of life. A dramatic shift in attitude is neccessary.

(to be continued, but I have no time right now)

While I don't disagree with you, that the server would die if that individual left without anyone taking his place, the server is pretty much dead right now.

https://imgur.com/HwZgqv3

<- Screenshot of the playercount the past week or so.

Again, I want to make this perfectly clear. This post has no intention of attacking anyone, but if the issues doesn't get worked out (in the eyes of the players), then I dont think there is any chance of saving CC, as its currently on hardcore life-support.

I will withhold the rest of my thoughts on this, till you've had time to finish your comment.

 

[Nusk]

I appreciate that you've spent a great deal of hours on the server, and I truly do believe that you care for the survival of it, but your approach is off the rails and counter productive at best.

Let me address this point by point because my last response was written quite quickly.

The movement I referred to was this post. I acknowledge lots of people care about the server, but it won't take much to convert this from a constructive discussion to one that's just hating on individuals.

Regarding cheating, exploits and toxicity; those three points weren't targetted specifically and solely at you. I appreciate you touching on the toxicity point and explaining your side of the story, and perhaps you weren't involved in all of those things listed, but the culture and environment created by the aforementioned toxicity was a breeding ground for the cheating and exploits. As somebody that's been in the community for so long I don't think it's unfair to hold you to a high standard, so responsibility has to be taken regarding this.

With regards to why I think your approach is counterproductive, the fact of the matter is that without the support provided by the individual/individuals you are targetting, CC will simply die. With all of the knowledge I have of the operational side of the CivilGamers network, I can pretty much guarantee that the holes left in the server by the departure of targetted individuals would without question not be filled. If they're harassed to the point where they leave the server please be under no illusion that I would NOT jump in their place, and I'm fairly confident that those with the neccessary disciplines within the community wouldn't do so either.

In all my years of playing Garry's Mod I can count on one hand the number of people who have the shear amount of technical ability and drive that's undisputably been one of the pillars holding the community up. The fact CivilCity still receives maintainance and a constant flow of free work from said individuals is quite honestly a gift. Any true "OG's" from CivilCity will remember how it used to get literally two updates per year.

What CC has now is what it has, it'll fluctuate and people will move around, but fundamentally not much can change managerially and developmentally. Funnily enough, CivilCity was in a scarily similar situation around 12 months ago, and the work undertaken by server management turned it around and gave it another year of life. A dramatic shift in attitude is neccessary.

(to be continued, but I have no time right now)

Would just like to say that the server getting developers like Relman, Kvarkar was a gift for CC and it wouldn't of do so well in the past without the continous help they gave to the server. That being said good dev work is great but isn't effective if none of the existing player base enjoys what is being put out or changes get made and they just simply refuse to change it back with no real explanation

As you said "CC used to get literally two updates per year" and yeah that was very true we had a skill tree that was broken for years but the server still got consistant players, its just in 4.0 we was promised townhalls, and more clear communication between staff and players.

At the end of the day i just want the server to get back on its feet and i think there are alot of people that want the same thing. People will be looking at the post seeing the same gang of people, "known toxic" members of the community but from talking with everyone as a group i think everyone just wants somewhere to play at the end of the day.

 

[Majestick]

Would just like to say that the server getting developers like Relman, Kvarkar was a gift for CC and it wouldn't of do so well in the past without the continous help they gave to the server. That being said good dev work is great but isn't effective if none of the existing player base enjoys what is being put out or changes get made and they just simply refuse to change it back with no real explanation

As you said "CC used to get literally two updates per year" and yeah that was very true we had a skill tree that was broken for years but the server still got consistant players, its just in 4.0 we was promised townhalls, and more clear communication between staff and players.

At the end of the day i just want the server to get back on its feet and i think there are alot of people that want the same thing. People will be looking at the post seeing the same gang of people, "known toxic" members of the community but from talking with everyone as a group i think everyone just wants somewhere to play at the end of the day.

Couldn't agree more with what Nusk has said Relman and Kvarkar have both been great devs for the server without them the server most likely would not be where it is today with great custom made addons and updates to MNSCRIPT etc although me and Relman have had our disagreements and arguments and so on I still have respect for him as he could of quiet easily left but he has chosen to stay despite some of the stuff people has said to him and still carried on to do great stuff for the server and dedicated lots of his free time to dev for the server and make it a fun and unique server from all of the others.

 

[Connor | FUDGESICLE]

As someone who played CC from 2107 onwards. It is extremely sad to see the server that I used to love and play so much begin to die. I would put in 12+ hours a day because of how much I loved the unique content the server has too offer, I feel that the end of CC is natural as all GMOD server do eventually die because of on thing or another.

I wish that the same mistake that keeps on happening will stop, the mistake being (in my experience) Devs, SL and NL not listening to the community because, while I don't doubt their ability, they fail to listen to the player base because they believe they know what is in the interest of the community. I would like to thank Relman, Kvarakar and Cope for doing such and excellent job for years on CC. I will come back and play sometime to try and see if I can get the enjoyment I once got out of it.

Cheers,

 

[Valkon]

What you have to remember is that, as Connor said, those in charge of making those decisions have their own lives. 5 years is a long time, 5 years ago I would've had the time to endlessly sink into a cityRP/darkRP server, but that isn't the case. People have jobs, real lives and the real world to move on into.

The real issue is a lack of new talent coming up to replace those who eventually leave, it is always a good policy to have to have someone in waiting for a high ranking position.

One is none. Two is one.

I'd enforce this for regiments on MRP when I was UHC, I'd make sure there was always someone in line ready to take over the mantle of leadership should the current leader have to leave. I'd always make sure the protege was properly trained and knew how things worked, the regiments which followed that always did the best.

I feel this is how CC is going, just a lack of backup, once someone leaves it has a huge knock-on effect. If a developer leaves - they start looking for another dev, which can take months,

Dev's and management are also not paid for their work, they're volunteers, once an opportunity comes along where they can get paid, they'll take that over voluntary work any day, it's just basic economics.