The state of the Server

[Broda]

Yes give players who are the biggest geniuses and event lovers more control /s

 

[Yeke]

a lot of yap when it could just be fixed like this

scale back the amount of stuff that requires SL permission and give more control to the players, especially Sr. CL4/CL5 holders

SL ought only to intervene when things grow extreme and players continue to complain

I respect your opinion, however it feels disingenous when I have addressed this within my reply.

I agree SL intervention can be heavy handed, however there have been contributing factors on the US that lead to the current standing of SL / SSL, this was not done "just because"

 

[Recker]

Lag

I understand there is concern surrounding lag, however most of it is likely to do with PAC3, the USA server is on even better hardware than the UK server, and from what I have found in all accounts is that PAC3 is a major cause for lag, however at the same merit it is also one of the key things that keep the lights on, due to its popularity, which makes it hard to just "remove", we can if needed review the limits that are set or reduce if needed to try and reduce the impact, I will also be monitoring for optimisations to try improve any issues, however I would like people to refrain from random speculation on what "may cause" the lag, i.e. just because something is added, doesn't necessarily mean that the new thing is the problem but potentially an older system that doesn't play nice, and needs to be looked at.

Just curious but have you guys ever considered reworking PAC in some way shape or form? Aside from making optimizations to its codebase, etc. I had an idea a while back about putting some limitations on the importing of materials for third party images (i.e. imgur) as from my observations that's where most of PAC's lag comes from. So maybe instead of someone's PAC importing 20 textures from imgur, it'd only allow the importing of a max of maybe 3. I do believe that a majority of the PAC lag is from both events and importing images. As an example, I have a Gensec pac I just don't wear anymore because it imports 8-ish textures and whenever I wear it the entire server lags.

 

[Yeke]

Just curious but have you guys ever considered reworking PAC in some way shape or form? Aside from making optimizations to its codebase, etc. I had an idea a while back about putting some limitations on the importing of materials for third party images (i.e. imgur) as from my observations that's where most of PAC's lag comes from. So maybe instead of someone's PAC importing 20 textures from imgur, it'd only allow the importing of a max of maybe 3. I do believe that a majority of the PAC lag is from both events and importing images. As an example, I have a Gensec pac I just don't wear anymore because it imports 8-ish textures and whenever I wear it the entire server lags.

Unfortunately, the PAC3 codebase isnt easy to navigate, and "reworking it" would be a significant project, however the limits can be reviewed in the future, just we hold concerns on how this affects the playerbase and Gamemasters.

We will be reviewing as and when we have time, but ill discuss the limits with ventz.

 

[ToasterStrudels]

We will be reviewing as and when we have time

I get SSL and NL don't have a ton of time on their hands but whenever I see this I feel like it really just means "We're never going to look into it and forget about it in a few weeks once this thread stops being posted on."

 

[Broda]

I get SSL and NL don't have a ton of time on their hands but whenever I see this I feel like it really just means "We're never going to look into it and forget about it in a few weeks once this thread stops being posted on."

They do get around to it. SSL are more accessible than Network Leadership as the NL guys are hired to work at Civil Networks, their tasks will be a lot more wide scoped than your average volunteer. I do have to give credit where credit is due and I've been told by friends that the server performance for UK has increased, they do keep working on it.

 

[Pupper]

"One significant issue on the US server is that players often avoid facing challenges. Instead of taking the necessary steps to progress, they opt for easier paths, hoping that time or future players will resolve issues. This lack of courage and determination weakens the server’s overall quality."
"(People unwilling to face defeat, people unwilling to take what is necessary for them to progress, people lack of courage and determination and took the easy way thinking that eventually time, or their successors will miraculously complete what is good to the server or regiment.)"
Above is what banker said, below is yekes response

Unfortunatly, this is a key point that sadly people refuse to admit, and results in issues that SSL / NL have to then resolve by force, sadly we cannot sit there and just let the server identity turn into a "Main Character Syndrome" paradise, people always want to win, and a loss is seen as such a hard thing to swallow, when RP should be a mix of wins and losses.

I've covered alot of it above, however, when it comes to combat, it is a balancing act. Nobody likes overpowered things, and everyone considers themselves under powered. Everyone wants to be the main character, which in a server our size is not realistic.

To discuss other areas of complaint

This isn't true, Players aren't trying to be "Main Characters", and we don't have "Main Character Syndrome", we just want proper balance.
This kind of stuff is why players don't trust SL, I made an extensive complaint about the state of the server and most of the talking points were ignored, and responded to with something rude and false. (Though I appreciate what you said on perma guns & guns Yeke).

I’m not a big fan of these types of threads, as they tend to be more about venting frustrations than actually moving things forward. I understand that everyone has their own perspective, but often, people get stuck in their stance and refuse to reconsider. That said, I do respect all your opinions. However, much of what’s being brought up here has already been addressed. Canoon and I took four hours out of our day to sit down with the US players to work on improvements and start moving things in the right direction.

I appreciate the feedback wished you would of come talk to us sooner.

As a community, we all need to take responsibility for the roleplay we create. Not everyone is going to like what we do. Not everyone can be the main character. Nobody is the " Real life (Insert role)". Some of the best RP I've seen in my 2.5 years on this server has come from the player base. If you have an idea you think might be good for RP (like an RP enhancement or minor event) bring it up with our GM/ Event team. If you have a complaint about how something was handled in game, create a thread in the complaints section, so senior staff can look at it and see if theres something that needs to be addressed. Creating long threads to spill all the grievances over along period of time doesn't solve anything, and causes people to become highly defensive. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if we are going to improve the community, we need to respect each other.

A lot of players don't make complaints on things because they simply don't trust SL will actually do anything about it.
Tons of players complain about these exact same issues, there is plenty of discussion about how bad the server is already happening in TS and in game with friends and peers but nobody makes a complaint on the forums because they don't trust SL. There are even players who think they will get 1984d, witchhunted, or otherwise punished for speaking out about issues especially ones regarding SL.

It definetly doesn't help that the complaints section is locked to only the person that made the complaint and staff members, theres less discussion about the issues in complaints and basically zero trust that change will actually happen. Even as I told my friends that I was going to post this on the forums I got told that I would get blacklisted from high rank positions and witchhunted by staff, not true but there is a lot of reasons why players feel like they would get punished for speaking out. It would help to have a public complaints section solely for complaining about server content. (this is why I posted this in general discussion, and not a complaint)

Thank you @Yeke for responding with something genuine

 

[Bohemia]

love dese posts.... good thread.... this is true... too many permas....

 

[fyzar]

---

Map

I understand there are some concerns surrounding the map, and we will take feedback, but "its mid" or "its shit" doesn't really help us, furthermore we cannot make changes on a dime as it requires a significant effort to change up the map and ensure its also optimised and makes sense gameplay wise, but if you have feedback, id be grateful to hear it, as long as its constructive and not just "its shit"

---

i just want to raise something about d-class's method of escape that are in general frustrating

first you have to get scrap which can either be the easiest part or the hardest,
second you have to run through a single door which is looked upon by a big mass of people outside medbay
run to outside CPC, pray no ones coming through, run to the 2 entrances, pray that no ones watching from primary or secondary, run to 914
Get to 914 and grab a disguise, upgrade your card
some random guy roaming hears you using 914, calls it out (you've basically just poked a hornets nest) loads of MTF show up and you die in seconds
rinse and repeat

during high pop its almost impossible to escape d-block on its own due to the sheer amount of people near the area, you've either got to wait for a C5 and leg it or get ridiculously lucky please please please add another exit to d-block and another entrance to LCZ

 

[Yeke]

I made an extensive complaint about the state of the server and most of the talking points were ignored, and responded to with something rude and false

Hi Pupper,

I apologise if what I have said has made you feel this way, If you wish, I will be available tonight to have a genuine discussion with you if you would like over Teamspeak, I don't shy away from these discussions as its easier to understand my perspective when I am not typing, and I can provide better justification that doesn't just look like I am being defensive, which is not my intention.

I do believe its hard to understand the intent through simple messaging and I spent hours trying to rid the message of any defensiveness or ignorance, even running through chatGPT to check my tonality, If you are up for this, please feel free to DM me on discord and we can sort this out, I don't mind sitting down with others too.

It definetly doesn't help that the complaints section is locked to only the person that made the complaint and staff members, theres less discussion about the issues in complaints and basically zero trust that change will actually happen.

I can revisit the open opening of certain complaints, however the reason these are private was simply due to the fact, these became a public spectacle which lead to people ridiculing or targeting staff with knowledge of past complaints to discredit them, thus making our staff fear complaints even more, I may consider a new section for Content Complaints that may be more public.

i just want to raise something about d-class's method of escape that are in general frustrating

first you have to get scrap which can either be the easiest part or the hardest,
second you have to run through a single door which is looked upon by a big mass of people outside medbay
run to outside CPC, pray no ones coming through, run to the 2 entrances, pray that no ones watching from primary or secondary, run to 914
Get to 914 and grab a disguise, upgrade your card
some random guy roaming hears you using 914, calls it out (you've basically just poked a hornets nest) loads of MTF show up and you die in seconds
rinse and repeat

during high pop its almost impossible to escape d-block on its own due to the sheer amount of people near the area, you've either got to wait for a C5 and leg it or get ridiculously lucky please please please add another exit to d-block and another entrance to LCZ

Hello Fyzar,

I appreciate your frustration, as a D-class gameplay loop is intentionally made difficult with our design, the ability to have your escape be so close, yet so far, and having to think about the best ways to escape the facility to preserve your life is intentional, as D-Class are the "lifeblood" of the servers testing arena and no good would come if we had all the d-class out on surface or elsewhere wandering the site.

As such a separate entrance may not be the best option as it will result in an empty d-block thus curtailing the ability for Research to roleplay.

Kind Regards
Yeke

 

[Auburn]

a lot of yap when it could just be fixed like this

scale back the amount of stuff that requires SL permission and give more control to the players, especially Sr. CL4/CL5 holders

SL ought only to intervene when things grow extreme and players continue to complain

I would just like to mention that UK SL took a completely hands off approach to the last GOC x CI war around a month ago and let the RP leaders handle it themselves, which resulted in zero issues and zero need to intervene for "the benefit of server health".
Both parties communicated, compromised, and cooperated to make the experience fun for both parties. That spirit should be seen more often in all aspects of the server, and its a shame that it has become such a rare occurrence.

Chemicals: I understand the chemicals may not be to your fancy, and these can be revisited as needed, as these are flexible, of which Auburn has a keen interest to improve what's available and frequently takes feedback on this topic, have these issues been raised or have these just been internalised and turned into internal mutterings that never reach the ears of people who can fix these issues, however since you have made comments, I will ping @Auburn he can view the concerns surrounding these chemicals.

As Yeke has mentioned I am heavily involved in server balance, especially VCraft and VGuns. I agree with some of the main points raised,

1. Class-X was created by myself and Requis to be an incredibly powerful roleplay shifter, but because of the power it holds it necessarily needs to be expensive. If it was cheap to produce, amnestics would be worthless and every lvl 56 tech expert would have a few doses on hand to restart an info breach. We envisioned the chemical to be used in high stakes event settings, or major player-driven roleplay scenarios. We could consider reducing it, but by design the chem is meant to be rare and that core aspect won't change any time soon.
   
   
2. The roleplay chemicals were added to benefit Medical roleplay, and were directly requested by the medical leadership team. Tens of players came together to discover the recipes for the chemicals and figure out what they do, and the reception from Medical (the intended target market for the chems) have been overwhelmingly positive. They may not be your cup of tea, but not everything in the server needs to be useful for combat.
   We've forgotten the reason the chem update was added. To enhance research and medical roleplay, expand the research and medical gameplay loop, and to create a diverse and dynamic sandbox for players to use. Instead its become bland and tedious, with people ignoring the opportunities the addon provides for healthy roleplay and only focusing on the benefit it can provide.
   
   
3. I fully agree that the Chem Grenades are too expensive and are painfully underutilized as of now in the server. I absolutely want to look at making the recipes more accessible, and would like all of your feedback on what needs changing and why. Its an absolute shame to see all the incredible work put into the addon from Metro be thrown aside, and I want to rectify that.

I would appreciate it if you approached members of the content team if you have grievances about server content, as it is their job to take in community feedback and make change where necessary. If you have any other concerns please speak with us about it, otherwise these issues will do nothing but fester.

 

[Niox]

I would just like to mention that UK SL took a completely hands off approach to the last GOC x CI war around a month ago and let the RP leaders handle it themselves, which resulted in zero issues and zero need to intervene for "the benefit of server health".

this is why UK SL are cooler than US SL (i am being sarcastic pls dont smite me again David World)

1. Class-X was created by myself and Requis to be an incredibly powerful roleplay shifter, but because of the power it holds it necessarily needs to be expensive. If it was cheap to produce, amnestics would be worthless and every lvl 56 tech expert would have a few doses on hand to restart an info breach. We envisioned the chemical to be used in high stakes event settings, or major player-driven roleplay scenarios. We could consider reducing it, but by design the chem is meant to be rare and that core aspect won't change any time soon.

Although I do agree that yes, it should be expensive, Class-X goes for 300k per dosage. Not many people are willing to buy something like that for a item that is 1 time use. I personally have bought 2 doses, and used 1 to create some banger RP (Which i am still using information from to create a on going storyline), but I have not seen it used passed this and only heard of it being used once. I feel like halving the recipe to make it closer to 150k would be better, but even making the total cost of chemicals 200k would be a major improvement, as again, it is such a expensive chemical for a 1 time RP item.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

Unfortunately, the PAC3 codebase isnt easy to navigate, and "reworking it" would be a significant project, however the limits can be reviewed in the future, just we hold concerns on how this affects the playerbase and Gamemasters.

We will be reviewing as and when we have time, but ill discuss the limits with ventz.

no way, vPAC

love dese posts.... good thread.... this is true... too many permas....

hard disagree, give us a perm davy crockett - keep the permaban function on it

just an insta permaban ourselves from the network gun, very useful

I can revisit the open opening of certain complaints, however the reason these are private was simply due to the fact, these became a public spectacle which lead to people ridiculing or targeting staff with knowledge of past complaints to discredit them, thus making our staff fear complaints even more, I may consider a new section for Content Complaints that may be more public.

that sounds pretty constructive, i like it

i just want to raise something about d-class's method of escape that are in general frustrating

first you have to get scrap which can either be the easiest part or the hardest,
second you have to run through a single door which is looked upon by a big mass of people outside medbay
run to outside CPC, pray no ones coming through, run to the 2 entrances, pray that no ones watching from primary or secondary, run to 914
Get to 914 and grab a disguise, upgrade your card
some random guy roaming hears you using 914, calls it out (you've basically just poked a hornets nest) loads of MTF show up and you die in seconds
rinse and repeat

during high pop its almost impossible to escape d-block on its own due to the sheer amount of people near the area, you've either got to wait for a C5 and leg it or get ridiculously lucky please please please add another exit to d-block and another entrance to LCZ

honestly, i agree to an extent - the riot update made d-class a lot more combative and the d-class gameplay loop ends up tending to rely more on direct, confrontational methods of escaping rather than ways they might stealth out or RP an escape. it's not quite a 'make it less combative' but i think looking at the d-class/gensec/rsd loop with this in mind could potentially help with retention and encourage RP

I appreciate your frustration, as a D-class gameplay loop is intentionally made difficult with our design, the ability to have your escape be so close, yet so far, and having to think about the best ways to escape the facility to preserve your life is intentional, as D-Class are the "lifeblood" of the servers testing arena and no good would come if we had all the d-class out on surface or elsewhere wandering the site.

As such a separate entrance may not be the best option as it will result in an empty d-block thus curtailing the ability for Research to roleplay.

this is also true, but also in relation to this, i wonder if it would be viable to give d-class some form of reliable, limited option they could use to attempt escape during/immediately following testing rp. i think i'll make it a suggestion when suggestions open back up, but my initial idea would be something like having a hidey hole in d-block showers that d-class could take small, non-contraband stuff from (so it would pass weapon check), like a single-dose vial of 106 or something (maybe CI can stock it when they do d-block raids?)? something that would be best used when they get an opportunity during/after research rp. although my main hang-up is that it could potentially disrupt research rp because of that? i think it's worth exploring.

Class-X was created by myself and Requis to be an incredibly powerful roleplay shifter, but because of the power it holds it necessarily needs to be expensive. If it was cheap to produce, amnestics would be worthless and every lvl 56 tech expert would have a few doses on hand to restart an info breach. We envisioned the chemical to be used in high stakes event settings, or major player-driven roleplay scenarios. We could consider reducing it, but by design the chem is meant to be rare and that core aspect won't change any time soon.

chem overdosing system when

i think if someone gets class A/B/C/D/E'd, then they take X, then they get A/B/C/D/E'd again after that, they should just instantly die - that kind of fuckery would 100% logically result in an aneurysm or something, that would be amazing

I fully agree that the Chem Grenades are too expensive and are painfully underutilized as of now in the server. I absolutely want to look at making the recipes more accessible, and would like all of your feedback on what needs changing and why. Its an absolute shame to see all the incredible work put into the addon from Metro be thrown aside, and I want to rectify that.

counterpoint, allow me to make big ventanyl grenade. i want to be able to ventanyl nade the entire site in one throw

this will have no issues whatsoever

 

[Toaste]

no way, vPAC

hard disagree, give us a perm davy crockett - keep the permaban function on it

just an insta permaban ourselves from the network gun, very useful

that sounds pretty constructive, i like it

honestly, i agree to an extent - the riot update made d-class a lot more combative and the d-class gameplay loop ends up tending to rely more on direct, confrontational methods of escaping rather than ways they might stealth out or RP an escape. it's not quite a 'make it less combative' but i think looking at the d-class/gensec/rsd loop with this in mind could potentially help with retention and encourage RP

this is also true, but also in relation to this, i wonder if it would be viable to give d-class some form of reliable, limited option they could use to attempt escape during testing rp. i think i'll make it a suggestion when suggestions open back up, but my initial idea would be something like having a hidey hole in d-block showers that d-class could take small, non-contraband stuff from (so it would pass weapon check), like a single-dose vial of 106 or something (maybe CI can stock it when they do d-block raids?)? something that would be best used when they get an opportunity during/after research rp. although my main hang-up is that it could potentially disrupt research rp because of that? i think it's worth exploring.

chem overdosing system when

i think if someone gets class A/B/C/D/E'd, then they take X, then they get A/B/C/D/E'd again after that, they should just instantly die - that kind of fuckery would 100% logically result in an aneurysm or something, that would be amazing

counterpoint, allow me to make big ventanyl grenade. i want to be able to ventanyl nade the entire site in one throw

this will have no issues whatsoever

Mixing Amnestics and Mnestics is generally not recommended? Tell that to my 30 liters of Class A and 2 doses of Class X

 

[Niox]

chem overdosing system when

just RP it out smh

one time i injected some guy with 1.5L of Class A and he turned into a potato

 

[stephenpreisler]

Besides the issues regarding the server's physical state (lag etc.), I feel that things are going along nicely.

I don't think there's ever been this much upward mobility in the Foundation at least since I've started playing.

I constantly see people in new positions that they enjoy.

 

[Toaste]

just RP it out smh

one time i injected some guy with 1.5L of Class A and he turned into a potato

i wonder what a few liters of class D would do to a man
maybe a carrot?

 

[Gizzmo]

I appreciate this, it puts alot of thoughts into words in ways I couldn't.

 

['HOUND']

Bro speaking facts

 

[Pupper]

Hi Pupper,

I apologise if what I have said has made you feel this way, If you wish, I will be available tonight to have a genuine discussion with you if you would like over Teamspeak, I don't shy away from these discussions as its easier to understand my perspective when I am not typing, and I can provide better justification that doesn't just look like I am being defensive, which is not my intention.

I do believe its hard to understand the intent through simple messaging and I spent hours trying to rid the message of any defensiveness or ignorance, even running through chatGPT to check my tonality, If you are up for this, please feel free to DM me on discord and we can sort this out, I don't mind sitting down with others too.

Don't worry about it, I was talking about canoon