Accepted Ruling Change (Global Chain of Command, 4.1)

[Second]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This change will move "MTF Commissioned Officers" up to be on par with "Agency Managers" (imaged below)


Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
I don't believe so? (N/A)

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+ Will allow for MTF COs to "feel senior" in terms of authority on-site.
+ Overall just makes sense, GSD CPT and Exec. Researcher are miles easier to get than MTF LT+

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- None I can think of?

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Instead of writing a paragraph, I will list off the differences between the 3 categories mentioned in this post to emphasize my points.

MTF Commissioned Officer:
- Slot limits
- Internally promoted
- Could take weeks or months of effort to achieve
- Classified as "Senior CL4", meaning you can not hold it alongside another Senior position.

Agency Manager:
- Slot limits
- Internally promoted
- Could take weeks or months of effort to achieve
- Classified as "Senior CL4", meaning you can not hold it alongside another Senior position.

Departmental Jr. CL4 (Exec. Researcher, GSD CPT, IA Ambassador, DEA Sp. Agent, Med. Consultant):
- No restrictions on slots (Meaning on a roster, not in-game job slots)
- Forum application for whitelists
- Easier to achieve
- Classified as "Junior CL4", meaning you can hold multiple (or even all) of the positions listed alongside others OR a Senior Position.

MTF Commissioned Officers share more in common with DEA Agency Manager than Departmental Jr. CL4, it would make more sense for them to have the same level of authority within the Chain of Command. This would also allow Site Admin/Site Command to properly respect them as "Senior" positions when it comes to policy changes, as having them be on par with Departmental Jr. CL4 makes it hard to have policies bend around them.

 

[Niox]

I want to note that the reason it is like this is because they all have the same impact.

Sure, a MTF CO may be harder to get than a GSD CPT or Exec RSD, but their purpose and place on the CoC is still the same.
A MTF CO doesn't lead a Regiment, but majorly helps and is one of the leads in it. A GSD CPT is the same for GSD, a Exec RSD is the same for RSD. They all have a COM, Chief or Director.
If anything, Agency Manager should be moved down as its purpose is the same as the rest mentioned above. (Although Special Agent does exist, so this literally cannot happen for obvious reasons)

There is a difference between being a Senior CL4 for gameplay purposes, and not being higher than other JR CL4 because of how the foundation works.

 

[Wolff]

-support no real beneficial impacts except "I get to feel more senior and feel like I have more authority"

Exactly, we wanna feel important ?

 

[Naffen]

Exactly, we wanna feel important ?

Sadly that isn't a beneficial change

 

[Second]

-support no real beneficial impacts except "I get to feel more senior and feel like I have more authority"

I want to note that the reason it is like this is because they all have the same impact.

Sure, a MTF CO may be harder to get than a GSD CPT or Exec RSD, but their purpose and place on the CoC is still the same.
A MTF CO doesn't lead a Regiment, but majorly helps and is one of the leads in it. A GSD CPT is the same for GSD, a Exec RSD is the same for RSD. They all have a COM, Chief or Director.
If anything, Agency Manager should be moved down as its purpose is the same as the rest mentioned above. (Although Special Agent does exist, so this literally cannot happen for obvious reasons)

There is a difference between being a Senior CL4 for gameplay purposes, and not being higher than other JR CL4 because of how the foundation works.

Just out of sheer curiousity, can you tell me what makes MTF CO a "Senior Position" besides "the rules say so"?

In terms of authority, they are on par with Jr. CL4 as is. It is also due to this fact that SA and SC (on US) does not treat MTF COs as true "Senior CL4". It is so bad, in fact, that I had to explain to an Ethics Member that IA Arrests of AFKing in a box for 10 minutes are not suitable punishments for crimes committed by an MTF LT+ and should be taken to tribunal. A change like this will make the positions be "Senior", not "Junior but with restrictions".

CI COs and GOC COs are very obviously senior, as they are their own faction and have their own structure, but MTF COs feel like Junior positions with extra steps.

 

[Pyro]

Great Suggestion

 

[Emilia Foddg]

A MTF CO doesn't lead a Regiment, but majorly helps and is one of the leads in it.

MTF LT+ pretty much lead when MTF command aren't around. sure you could say the same of NCOs when COs aren't around ether, but my point here is that an MTF's CO team are generally active and are basically expected to be the regiment lead in command's stead when command aren't there, which is frequent enough and with good reason. they should have the authority to match, imo

but not above assistants

 

[Niox]

MTF LT+ pretty much lead when MTF command aren't around. sure you could say the same of NCOs when COs aren't around ether, but my point here is that an MTF's CO team are generally active and are basically expected to be the regiment lead in command's stead when command aren't there, which is frequent enough and with good reason. they should have the authority to match, imo

but not above assistants

The same applies to a GSD CPT, they lead GSD when their CoS isnt around, and then a Officer when a GSD CPT isnt around, etc.
CPT's are less active than MTF CO's because they are not Senior Positions. Personally quite mixed on it so

+/- Neutral

just wanted to mention some points

 

[Emilia Foddg]

The same applies to a GSD CPT, they lead GSD when their CoS isnt around, and then a Officer when a GSD CPT isnt around, etc.
CPT's are less active than MTF CO's because they are not Senior Positions. Personally quite mixed on it so

+/- Neutral

just wanted to mention some points

true... but from my experience in E-11, it just doesn't track that LT+s are basically equivalent to a gensec captain

 

[PhoenixHeanix]

+Support
Seems cool.

 

[Niox]

true... but from my experience in E-11, it just doesn't track that LT+s are basically equivalent to a gensec captain

and again, thats because LT is a senior position, so people spend me time on it
so for me Neutral

 

[Emilia Foddg]

and again, thats because LT is a senior position, so people spend me time on it
so for me Neutral

...You know, what about splitting it between the specific ranks? Not all three, but... Surely you can agree that an MTF CPT/MAJ still being equivalent to a gensec captain is completely ludicrous, right? ...Although I guess that relies on those ranks staying that way for the forseeable future.

 

[Speff]

+support

mainly because this puts somebody else above assistants and i hate assistants

 

[Pupper]

-Support

The current ranking system works good already, there's really no reason to place MTF COs equal to Agency Manager, and you never really listed any real reason why an MTF CO should be equal to Agency Managers.

"+ Will allow for MTF COs to "feel senior" in terms of authority on-site."
feeling "senior" is not a good reason to change the ranking system

Also it takes a Minimum of 2 weeks experience as a Senior Agent in DEA to get Special Agent, I'm not anything in DEA but a senior agent but i know Agency Manager is somewhat of a precursor to Dpt. Director and takes some time to get to as a Special Agent. It's a more trusted position and should be higher than MTF COs in hierarchy, At most MTF COs should be below assisstants.

Commisioned Officers are only senior positions because they are meant to be someones main role, if someone had Dpt. Director alongside for example E-11 CPT they wouldn't have enough time to play both positions.

 

[Jonas Enry]

-support no real beneficial impacts except "I get to feel more senior and feel like I have more authority"

Im going to say there would be a benenfit as there was an agency manger who did ingnore e-11 cos requests to leave HCZ. He had to be cuffed and dragged out

 

[Naffen]

Im going to say there would be a benenfit as there was an agency manger who did ingnore e-11 cos requests to leave HCZ. He had to be cuffed and dragged out

Report it to SA then, this is redundant to the suggestion or my comment , there's IC policies to counter this

 

[Simon "Kitton" A.]

-Support

Sorry lads, I know most of you think it's a good idea however COs are considered junior cl4s for a reason.

Just because right now getting CO in an MTF is hard it doesn't mean later on this changes.
I have been promoted off cool down instantly back in my nu-7 days and there is considerably less effort put in than getting into let's say agency manager... As a requirement to get promoted to mtfs are internal and departments external.

Hovewer MTFs still have ownership in their respective regions such as e-11 hcz or nu-7 garage which at alot of cases bypass some aspects of this command structure.

Once again I think the current command structure is well balanced and should stay unchanged

 

[Gure]

+support
above is uk hater

 

[Broda]

- Support

UK never had this issue. Do what we've done and create a Zone Jurisdiction Policy. Regardless of rank, in that Zone of Influence that specific regiment will hold authority.

Im going to say there would be a benenfit as there was an agency manger who did ingnore e-11 cos requests to leave HCZ. He had to be cuffed and dragged out

In regards to this, you did the right thing according to the policy and no further issues came of it. Regardless if there is an E11 PVT vs an Agency Manager, the Zone Jurisdiction Policy trumps it.

This seems to be a US issue and Im more than happy to help any US SA/SC with the policy I created months ago to translate over to their side. But this suggestion isn't it.

Edit: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...ouid=106495748467810079386&rtpof=true&sd=true

For reference

 

[GMAN0289]

I agree with this sentiment of MTF CO being hard to obtain, but it doesn't take into account internal ranking structures like of GENSEC CPTs have Jr, Regular, and Senior which Senior can take at minimum up to 8 weeks normally longer. I'm all for it being included as a senior position if there was an alternative for other CL4 members of other departments to be able to obtain senior positions easily besides department director. It just seems like an oversight when Agency Manager was added.

Also I believe the reason it has this feel of oh it should be a senior member is because you can only have one MTF CO position in Foundation, CI, and GOC. The funny part is you can actually still hold department director roles while being a CO. Perhaps it could also be better to change how the regiment system is to allow players to hold both a CO and perhaps SA position etc.

 

[Saphira Harlow]

+Support