Accepted Ruling Change (Global Chain of Command, 4.1)

[Second]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This change will move "MTF Commissioned Officers" up to be on par with "Agency Managers" (imaged below)


Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
I don't believe so? (N/A)

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+ Will allow for MTF COs to "feel senior" in terms of authority on-site.
+ Overall just makes sense, GSD CPT and Exec. Researcher are miles easier to get than MTF LT+

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- None I can think of?

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Instead of writing a paragraph, I will list off the differences between the 3 categories mentioned in this post to emphasize my points.

MTF Commissioned Officer:
- Slot limits
- Internally promoted
- Could take weeks or months of effort to achieve
- Classified as "Senior CL4", meaning you can not hold it alongside another Senior position.

Agency Manager:
- Slot limits
- Internally promoted
- Could take weeks or months of effort to achieve
- Classified as "Senior CL4", meaning you can not hold it alongside another Senior position.

Departmental Jr. CL4 (Exec. Researcher, GSD CPT, IA Ambassador, DEA Sp. Agent, Med. Consultant):
- No restrictions on slots (Meaning on a roster, not in-game job slots)
- Forum application for whitelists
- Easier to achieve
- Classified as "Junior CL4", meaning you can hold multiple (or even all) of the positions listed alongside others OR a Senior Position.

MTF Commissioned Officers share more in common with DEA Agency Manager than Departmental Jr. CL4, it would make more sense for them to have the same level of authority within the Chain of Command. This would also allow Site Admin/Site Command to properly respect them as "Senior" positions when it comes to policy changes, as having them be on par with Departmental Jr. CL4 makes it hard to have policies bend around them.

 

[Lee Falzone]

+Support

 

[GMAN0289]

+support

mainly because this puts somebody else above assistants and i hate assistants

I do as well

 

[Hypnotoad]

+Major Support
you should also put MTF NCOs where MTF COs are now

but yeah, as said above, it's going to be denied because it nerfs assistants in the chain of commanand (and assistants should always be above MTF tbh, i'm just supporting because i love chaos)

if you want a better shot at getting this accepted, consider the following revised order:

1. O5 Council | Ethics Committee
2. O5/Ethics Assistants (when under direct orders from O5/Ethics)
3. Site Administration (Site Director, Manager & Advisor)
4. Department Directors | Department Chiefs | MTF Commanders
5. O5/Ethics Assistants (when not under direct orders from O5/Ethics)
6. Agency Managers | MTF Commissioned Officers
7. Executive Researchers | Medical Consultants | Ambassadors | Special Agents | Security Captains (...and MTF NCOs? :^) or maybe one down? alongside IA and DEA)
8. Internal Affairs | External Affairs
9. MTF Operatives
10. Security Staff
11. All other personnel

...actually now that i look, this chain of command needs a complete rework, there's several things that kinda don't make sense...

- Support

I agree, MTF CO positions are harder to get and work towards, I should bring up a similar suggestion (in the content it covers) has been made previously
Link:https://www.civilgamers.com/communi...ge-in-the-chain-of-command.15459/page-3#posts

The denied comment will provide you the reason as to why the change was denied.

To continue, the reason I am replying to the above message is to agree that the chain of command does need a rework and your proposed suggestion to an amendment to the COC makes sense Lemon, but I don’t think CO’s should be elevated to feel more “Senior”. I should also add that CO’s even though are lower on the Chain of command have more authority in their jurisdictions e.g. E-11 CO’s have seniority in HCZ and can overrule higher members in the chain of command, furthermore NU-7 has higher authority on surface.

Overall I believe this change to not be necessary as proposed because methods are already in place to handle such issues. However I believe Lemons suggested amendment could fulfill your wishes in a proper way.

 

[Niox]

...You know, what about splitting it between the specific ranks? Not all three, but... Surely you can agree that an MTF CPT/MAJ still being equivalent to a gensec captain is completely ludicrous, right? ...Although I guess that relies on those ranks staying that way for the forseeable future.

For UK im pretty sure there is Trial CPT's, CPT's and Senior CPT's, and although yes this does set them apart it is a IC thing. Very good point, but this is just natural chain of command

 

[Tyrone]

+Support

 

[KingOfCommon]

+support

 

[Starling6]

+support

hamburger
(why wouldn't MTF CO's be given the same trust as same equivalent SCO's)?

 

[Second]

Also it takes a Minimum of 2 weeks experience as a Senior Agent in DEA to get Special Agent, I'm not anything in DEA but a senior agent but i know Agency Manager is somewhat of a precursor to Dpt. Director and takes some time to get to as a Special Agent. It's a more trusted position and should be higher than MTF COs in hierarchy, At most MTF COs should be below assisstants.

CO is a precursor to COM... and is Senior.. Just like... Agency Manager....

 

[Pyro]

-Support

Sorry lads, I know most of you think it's a good idea however COs are considered junior cl4s for a reason.

Just because right now getting CO in an MTF is hard it doesn't mean later on this changes.
I have been promoted off cool down instantly back in my nu-7 days and there is considerably less effort put in than getting into let's say agency manager... As a requirement to get promoted to mtfs are internal and departments external.

Hovewer MTFs still have ownership in their respective regions such as e-11 hcz or nu-7 garage which at alot of cases bypass some aspects of this command structure.

Once again I think the current command structure is well balanced and should stay unchanged

it is legit a Senior CL4 position, they CANNOT hold any other Senior positions whilst holding a MTF CO position... what is this obsurd reply?

 

[Noah Dingle/'Shepherd']

+Support

 

[Guinea]

+ Support

 

[Chad]

- Support

UK never had this issue. Do what we've done and create a Zone Jurisdiction Policy. Regardless of rank, in that Zone of Influence that specific regiment will hold authority.

In regards to this, you did the right thing according to the policy and no further issues came of it. Regardless if there is an E11 PVT vs an Agency Manager, the Zone Jurisdiction Policy trumps it.

This seems to be a US issue and Im more than happy to help any US SA/SC with the policy I created months ago to translate over to their side. But this suggestion isn't it.

Edit: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...ouid=106495748467810079386&rtpof=true&sd=true

For reference

it aint that deep

 

[checkraisefold]

-support no real beneficial impacts except "I get to feel more senior and feel like I have more authority"

-support i agree with this guy
assistant being lower than CO is also horrible fortune when Nu-7 CO inevitably breaks the legal codex and now ECA can do Jack Shit™ and can't arrest/reprimand them because they're higher in coc

 

[checkraisefold]

it is legit a Senior CL4 position, they CANNOT hold any other Senior positions whilst holding a MTF CO position... what is this obsurd reply?

To clarify:
MTF Commissioned Officers are counted as a "senior position" in terms of holding other "senior positions" like CO roles in factions. This is purely a wording made for the rules to prevent you from being CO in an MTF and CO in CI/GOC/MRP
MTF Commissioned Officers are counted as a Junior CL4 position in the actual current global base hierarchy/chain of command. They are on the same level as Ambassadors/Exec/etc in the hierarchy which is why they're junior CL4.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

To clarify:
MTF Commissioned Officers are counted as a "senior position" in terms of holding other "senior positions" like CO roles in factions. This is purely a wording made for the rules to prevent you from being CO in an MTF and CO in CI/GOC/MRP
MTF Commissioned Officers are counted as a Junior CL4 position in the actual current global base hierarchy/chain of command. They are on the same level as Ambassadors/Exec/etc in the hierarchy which is why they're junior CL4.

...this feels off. can you source this?

 

[Niox]

...this feels off. can you source this?

his source is the rules and the Global CoC

 

[Emilia Foddg]

his source is the rules and the Global CoC

i'm asking for a more concrete proof that MTF COs are a junior CL4 position - they have only stated that the rules as written are wording intended to prevent you from holding CO positions in multiple different factions without any proof of that assertion being an official staff position on the matter. at present, this is just two conflicting pieces of information, "COs are senior CL4s" and "COs are junior CL4s"

 

[Niox]

i'm asking for a more concrete proof that MTF COs are a junior CL4 position - they have only stated that the rules as written are wording intended to prevent you from holding CO positions in multiple different factions without any proof of that assertion being an official staff position on the matter. at present, this is just two conflicting pieces of information, "COs are senior CL4s" and "COs are junior CL4s"

CO's are Senior CL4's: On the rules
CO's are Junior CL4's: The Global CoC puts them with other Junior CL4's and they are treated the same.

 

[Second]

CO's are Senior CL4's: On the rules
CO's are Junior CL4's: The Global CoC puts them with other Junior CL4's and they are treated the same.

The point of this suggestion was to make them be Senior in both rulings and CoC, by the way. The reason may be a US issue, but it has nothing to do with ECAs/OAs like people keep saying. ECAs and OAs on US rarely if ever order LT+ around, and if they need to arrest an LT+ they are probably under SC orders (which puts them on par with SC).

 

[Emilia Foddg]

The point of this suggestion was to make them be Senior in both rulings and CoC, by the way. The reason may be a US issue, but it has nothing to do with ECAs/OAs like people keep saying. ECAs and OAs on US rarely if ever order LT+ around, and if they need to arrest an LT+ they are probably under SC orders (which puts them on par with SC).

yeah, assistants are gigachads on UK. probably because it's a higher barrier to entry? unsure